Hikers who REFUSE to move over even a little bit

[lordofthemark]

@Occasional rider 66761 wrote:

I’m 58 and I’ve just started riding my bike again after a gap of several years ….
However, it has taken me a while to get comfortable riding – in part because I have lousy balance and I’m finding it hard to make tight turns and in part because of other bikers and the overcrowded hiker/biker trials. I am scared to ride on roads unless we go way out of MoCo and out into the countryside, so that means using the hiker/biker trails.

Congrats on getting back into riding. I am 53 and also got back to riding after a long (slightly broken up) gap. As you ride will likely gain both ability and confidence.

As for the trails. I also find it confusing. On the one hand, the consensus IIUC is that trying to pass in the same lane on them is dangerous – there isn’t enough room to pass. Its better to pass in the opposite lane. The usual complaint is about fast cyclists who “thread the needle” – of course they are even more dangerous doing that because of their speed. As a slower cyclist, OTOH, its easier to wait for a suitable gap – though of course losing momentum can be a very big deal for a newbie cylist.

Of course even if you are going into the opposite lane to pass, I think its a good idea for walkers to go single file and to the right edge. Thats what I do as a walker on MUTs when I hear a cyclist coming. But many walkers (esp non-cyclists) seem to not do that, and AFAIK since they have the right of way, they are not obliged to. So sometimes you just have to put up with the frustration. One choice (aside from biking on quieter roads, which you may not feel ready for) is to seek out less heavily used trails.

I find the ped behavior particulalry annoying on the C&O towpath, where the terrain can make my choice of where to pass much more limited than on a paved trail.

Also note – if the worst behavior you have observed is peds walking two abreast on the correct side of the path, you are fortunate. There are much worse ped behaviors many of us have seen.

[mstone]

you should be leaving your lane to pass them, so it doesn’t matter if they’re taking the whole lane. if there isn’t enough room to take the other lane (due to oncoming traffic) you should just slow down and wait.

[TwoWheelsDC]

Probably not what you want to hear, but this is something you’re going to have to accept if you want to ride trails. Bicyclists must yield to pedestrians…If you don’t have room to pass, slow down, chill out, and wait the extra 2 seconds. As long as trail users aren’t crossing over into the oncoming lane, there is no particularly compelling reason to expect them to move over.

Also, I have to say that the needless anger is a bit off-putting….and it’s not just this post, but I hear it from trail users all the time. Getting away from the aggressiveness and intensity of traffic is one of the reasons I’m grateful to have a mostly off-road commute, and it really upsets me when people bring their road rage onto the trails…whether it be aggressive passes, or yelling at people because of their lights, or angry comments about lane usage. Of course people are going to do stupid things but, honestly, what good does it do to get all up in arms about it? Take a deep breath, shrug it off, and carry on.

[jabberwocky]

@mstone 66772 wrote:

you should be leaving your lane to pass them, so it doesn’t matter if they’re taking the whole lane. if there isn’t enough room to take the other lane (due to oncoming traffic) you should just slow down and wait.

This. They are entitled to however much of the lane they feel they need. Some pedestrians hug the right edge, some stay in the middle, some stay at the left edge of their lane. They have no obligation to make passing easier by staying right so cyclists don’t have to leave the lane, and walking two abreast is perfectly ok.

When I’m on MUPs and I see a situation where oncoming traffic, traffic in my lane and me will likely converge, I tend to slow well in advance to allow the opposite lane to clear without having to grab brakes at the last second. But sometimes you get to poke along at walking speed waiting for the opposite lane to clear. Thems the breaks. Consider it interval training.

[lordofthemark]

@mstone 66772 wrote:

you should be leaving your lane to pass them, so it doesn’t matter if they’re taking the whole lane. if there isn’t enough room to take the other lane (due to oncoming traffic) you should just slow down and wait.

One reason I like it that someone takes a step to the right, is that way I know they know I’m coming, and they arent going to make an unpredictable and dangerous move. Kind of like when I’m riding, and some faster cyclist calls “on your left ” I try to respond with “go ahead” or at least a nod, if not actually moving to the right (though I will do that too, where appropriate) – they still of course should go to the opposite lane to pass.

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 66776 wrote:

One reason I like it that someone takes a step to the right, is that way I know they know I’m coming, and they arent going to make an unpredictable and dangerous move.

Alternatively, they can wave or whatever. At any rate, they don’t have to move, and a cyclist certainly shouldn’t dump on them for not doing so. If they don’t give a sign that they heard you and you’re worried that an unpredictable action could cause a dangerous situation at your current speed, then simply slow the F down.

Back to the original poster: if your balance problem is making it uncomfortable for you to pass slow & close, you may consider a trike or three wheel recumbent rather than a two wheeler. (Serious, not meaning to be insulting.) If your balance concerns were alleviated you may end up with less stress and more fun.

[KLizotte]

From the WO&D’s website, this is a “suggestion for additional safety”: When the trail is heavily trafficked, users are advised to proceed in single file.

I thought the MVT’s official website said peds should stay to the right and walk single file but cannot check that right now since the NPS website is shut down due to the furlough.

Even though peds may not *have* to walk to the right and single file, I think that in some areas it just makes common sense and is considerate to do so. For instance, I’ve walked home with a co-worker across the George Mason bridge and we walked single file since the pathway is narrow.

The peds the original poster described should realize that they are forcing runners to go around them too.

Whenever I ride a MUT around here, I figure any ride where I arrive home without having an accident is a successful ride. Nothing else matters in the end. I find most of the residential neighborhoods to be more enjoyable than riding the MUTs.

To the original poster, you may wish to look into taking WABA’s Confident City cycling class. They are free and are for all levels (beginner to advanced). Also, while the government is shut down, Ohio Drive and Hain’s Pt are completely car free and are a cyclist’s paradise. These would be good places to practice biking in figure eights to get more comfortable with turning (done by leaning, not turning the handlebars BTW) and stopping. There are some very nice, little used MUTS if you are willing to drive (e.g., the Western Maryland Rail Trail).

I suspect there are people on this forum who would be happy to take you out for a ride around town to help you get used to dealing with traffic; there are some best practices that should be learned.

[PotomacCyclist]

To be honest, I have more issues and encounters with cyclists riding side by side on the trails. They often crowd the center line and even ride on the other side. But that’s a different situation.

I never expect pedestrians to step aside if they are in the proper lane already. If there is oncoming bike/ped traffic and I can’t pass, I practice my balance skills and ride very slowly behind the walker/runner until it’s safe to pass. I think of it as a different type of physical challenge and task.

[jabberwocky]

Honestly, I’m generally so happy to see a pedestrian actually staying in their lane that I don’t even notice exactly where in the lane they are.

[mstone]

@KLizotte 66799 wrote:

From the WO&D’s website, this is a “suggestion for additional safety”: When the trail is heavily trafficked, users are advised to proceed in single file.

I’m not about to take safety advice from the pointless stop sign nazis at NVRPA. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for two people walking to want to talk to each other, and to walk side by side in order to do so. It does not make it any less safe for me unless I’m trying to pass between them and oncoming traffic, which would be a stupidly unsafe thing for me to be trying to do in the first place. That is, as long as they are in one lane–what does drive me around the bend is when two people with SUV strollers take more than one lane to meander next to one another. Ditto cyclists who take more than one lane to converse or form a peleton. If I’m passing to the left side of the left lane and someone else is over the line to the right, I’ve got a sufficient safety margin. Once they’re over the line, the safety margin starts to disappear.

[Occasional rider]

Thanks all for the feedback. Greatly appreciated. That confident riding class sounds like something I need to do. That…and move away from this area. But that’s another topic that has little to do with cycling, except that what I encountered was just another symptom.

I did try riding on Beach Drive on a weekend, staying to the right to stay out of the way of the faster bikers (pretty much everyone!) and still got yelled at by a few people. I wish they’d close Canal Road on weekends or maybe just Sundays but I suspect the same thing would happen there, though perhaps far fewer walkers given that access is somewhat more limited than is the case with Beach Drive.

Has WABA ever tried to get Canal Rd closed on weekends?

[lordofthemark]

@mstone 66806 wrote:

I’m not about to take safety advice from the pointless stop sign nazis at NVRPA. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for two people walking to want to talk to each other, and to walk side by side in order to do so. It does not make it any less safe for me unless I’m trying to pass between them and oncoming traffic, which would be a stupidly unsafe thing for me to be trying to do in the first place.

Dont take what Im about to say as advocacy of anything, but as musings and questions

1. A single ped is walking southbound. A cyclist is riding northbound, and is behind a pair of peds walking northbound. The southbound ped is staying to HER far right (the westernmost part of the MUT). If the folks walking Nbound get single file to the right, its possible to bike up the center line of the MUT. Do you consider that dangerous? I understand you can wait, but if there are LOTS of peds in both directions, you are going to wait a long time. Its similar to some sidewalks.

2. The peds are not walking but standing. Or the ped on one side is standing.

3. There is a cyclist going Nbound, behind a runner going Nbound, behind two walks going NBound. If the walkers stay two abreast, the runner will need to go to the opposite lane. At that point should the cyclist to go to the opposite lane, and pass the runner within lane? Or wait (which is always a solution but depending on traffic, can impair the utility of the trail). In that case if the walkers went one abreast, the jogger could pass in lane easily, while the cyclist could pass in the opposite lane.

Again, as a walker, I will routinely walk two abreast, but when there are lots of cyclists around, or when there is one coming up right behind, I make it a point to switch to single file. It just doesn’t make sense to me to come closer to faster traffic. Perhaps I am not enough of a “vehicular hiker”?

[jabberwocky]

Personally, if I can give everyone 2-3 or so feet, I’ll pass up the middle (slowing down first). Generally, that requires a single pedestrian on each side staying pretty close to the edge of the trail. If I can’t give that much space, I wait. Occasionally I screw up and misjudge and pass a little close, but I try my best to avoid that.

My mindset is that I try and ride like I would like cars to ride around me when I’m on the road. I hate it when cars buzz me because they are being impatient. I imagine pedestrians hate being buzzed because cyclists are being impatient.

[creadinger]

@lordofthemark 66809 wrote:

3. There is a cyclist going Nbound, behind a runner going Nbound, behind two walks going NBound. If the walkers stay two abreast, the runner will need to go to the opposite lane. At that point should the cyclist to go to the opposite lane, and pass the runner within lane? Or wait (which is always a solution but depending on traffic, can impair the utility of the trail). In that case if the walkers went one abreast, the jogger could pass in lane easily, while the cyclist could pass in the opposite lane.

You wait for the jogger to pass the peds, then pass the jogger afterward. I HATE IT when faster cyclists pass me just as I’m about to pass peds or a jogger. I’m more likely to run a faster cyclist off the trail by passing the peds wide than to brake hard just so he can keep his speed. That’s a dick move to pass someone just as they’re about to pass slower people. This is similar enough that I’m sure the jogger in your scenario would be cursing you with each breath if you try to pass them all at the same time.

PS – my frame of reference is of the MVT because it’s what I ride most. Maybe it’s possible to do double passes on the W&OD since it is so luxuriously wide, but still.

[lordofthemark]

@creadinger 66811 wrote:

You wait for the jogger to pass the peds, then pass the jogger afterward. I HATE IT when faster cyclists pass me just as I’m about to pass peds or a jogger. I’m more likely to run a faster cyclist off the trail by passing the peds wide than to brake hard just so he can keep his speed. That’s a dick move to pass someone just as they’re about to pass slower people. This is similar enough that I’m sure the jogger in your scenario would be cursing you with each breath if you try to pass them all at the same time.

PS – my frame of reference is of the MVT because it’s what I ride most. Maybe it’s possible to do double passes on the W&OD since it is so luxuriously wide, but still.

I hear you, I am trying to clarify why. The difference between passing a jogger passing some peds, and a faster cyclist passing a slower cyclist passing some peds, is that the Nbound jogger can pass the peds within the Nbound lane. IF (as has been stated above) its safe for a Nbound ped to walk on the left edge of the Nbound lane, while a cyclist passes Nbound in the opposite lane, why is it dangerous to pass a Northbound jogger staying in the nbound lane while a ped swerves to the right edge of the Nbound lane? The distance from the left most non cyclist trail user to the passing cyclist is the same in both cases. Is it a matter of being spooked while passing, quite apart from the geometry?

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