HAWK signal on GW Parkway on 11/18?

[hozn]

Are there studies that show the ineffectiveness — or effectiveness — of the HAWK signals that can be referenced here? I think that is the ingredient missing in making this a constructive conversation instead of some personal feelings. My single experience with HAWK signals on Belmont Ridge was fantastic: I pushed the button & the car stopped; that has never happened for me there. I suspect that my single data point is not quite enough to inform a general conclusion, though.

A 5 second Google search and cursory read of abstracts suggests that there are papers supporting the effectiveness of these systems (e.g. http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?id=881295). I’m sure these studies are deeply flawed, but either way this seems like a better place to start.

[mstone]

@hozn 69462 wrote:

Are there studies that show the ineffectiveness — or effectiveness — of the HAWK signals that can be referenced here? I think that is the ingredient missing in making this a constructive conversation instead of some personal feelings. My single experience with HAWK signals on Belmont Ridge was fantastic: I pushed the button & the car stopped; that has never happened for me there. I suspect that my single data point is not quite enough to inform a general conclusion, though.

Your confusion is that the thing on Belmont isn’t a HAWK. A HAWK (as referenced in the study) has a red cycle, which tells cars to stop. This thing on Belmont just flashes a yellow light on demand. A yellow light flashing at a crosswalk doesn’t mean anything in particular (I refuse to believe that people are refusing to stop at that crosswalk because they don’t know it’s there; if they miss all the giant crosswalk signs they’ll probably also miss the light). I would love to see an actual HAWK (because, as documented, motorists have already been trained on what to do when they see a red light) but there seems to be pushback of the sort, “wouldn’t that make cars stop?” and god forbid we do that.

Our experience differs in that (in my experience) there are just as many cars blowing through the crosswalk at belmont as there were before. It’s still a terrifying crossing if you’re, e.g., with kids. Some people will stop, some won’t, and there’s no real safe way to cross with confidence.

Edit to add: for those looking for studies, search for “RRFB” and “PFB” (the proper names for the yellow blinky light and the HAWK, respectively). AFAIK, most of the material points to RRFBs for low speed/low volume crosswalks…

[bobco85]

@hozn 69462 wrote:

Are there studies that show the ineffectiveness — or effectiveness — of the HAWK signals that can be referenced here? I think that is the ingredient missing in making this a constructive conversation instead of some personal feelings. My single experience with HAWK signals on Belmont Ridge was fantastic: I pushed the button & the car stopped; that has never happened for me there. I suspect that my single data point is not quite enough to inform a general conclusion, though.

A 5 second Google search and cursory read of abstracts suggests that there are papers supporting the effectiveness of these systems (e.g. http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx?id=881295). I’m sure these studies are deeply flawed, but either way this seems like a better place to start.

I agree and have had similar experience with using HAWK signals. I really like them and was initially very dismissive of seeing a missed opportunity for their use at this crossing (honestly, my enthusiasm went from a lot to zero when I realized it wasn’t going to be a HAWK signal).

That said, I did check out the article you linked to. I then found a related article titled “Analysis of Effects of LED Rectangular Rapid-Flash Beacons on Yielding to Pedestrians in Multilane Crosswalks” and later found the full version on the FHWA website: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/10046/ I think the article relates pretty well to the flashing beacons that will be used on the GW Parkway.

From reading the article, my fears of a do-nothing-signal are somewhat allayed, and I will wait to see how this new set-up works. I still share mstone’s concerns about how this factors into liability in the event of a crash, but I am feeling a lot more optimistic about the situation now that I have some evidence to go on.

[kcb203]

I know an overpass or tunnel is out of the question, but what about a ramp up to Memorial Bridge? I bet 90% of the traffic is Mem Bridge to Mt. Vernon trail. I’m not sure it could be done in an aesthetically pleasing way, but it would obviate most of the road crossing problem.

[baiskeli]

@kcb203 69477 wrote:

I know an overpass or tunnel is out of the question, but what about a ramp up to Memorial Bridge? I bet 90% of the traffic is Mem Bridge to Mt. Vernon trail. I’m not sure it could be done in an aesthetically pleasing way, but it would obviate most of the road crossing problem.

I’ve considered that idea too. Maybe a corkscrew would work.

[hozn]

@bobco85 69467 wrote:

That said, I did check out the article you linked to. I then found a related article titled “Analysis of Effects of LED Rectangular Rapid-Flash Beacons on Yielding to Pedestrians in Multilane Crosswalks” and later found the full version on the FHWA website: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/10046/ I think the article relates pretty well to the flashing beacons that will be used on the GW Parkway.

From reading the article, my fears of a do-nothing-signal are somewhat allayed, and I will wait to see how this new set-up works. I still share mstone’s concerns about how this factors into liability in the event of a crash, but I am feeling a lot more optimistic about the situation now that I have some evidence to go on.

Sorry for confusion on HAWK; I obviously didn’t know what I was talking about. Thanks for linking to that article, though. Very helpful.

[consularrider]

@mstone 69466 wrote:

Your confusion is that the thing on Belmont isn’t a HAWK. A HAWK (as referenced in the study) has a red cycle, which tells cars to stop. This thing on Belmont just flashes a yellow light on demand. A yellow light flashing at a crosswalk doesn’t mean anything in particular (I refuse to believe that people are refusing to stop at that crosswalk because they don’t know it’s there; if they miss all the giant crosswalk signs they’ll probably also miss the light). I would love to see an actual HAWK (because, as documented, motorists have already been trained on what to do when they see a red light) but there seems to be pushback of the sort, “wouldn’t that make cars stop?” and god forbid we do that.

Our experience differs in that (in my experience) there are just as many cars blowing through the crosswalk at belmont as there were before. It’s still a terrifying crossing if you’re, e.g., with kids. Some people will stop, some won’t, and there’s no real safe way to cross with confidence.

Edit to add: for those looking for studies, search for “RRFB” and “PFB” (the proper names for the yellow blinky light and the HAWK, respectively). AFAIK, most of the material points to RRFBs for low speed/low volume crosswalks…

Ok, so in this area are the lights at the W&OD crossings at Gallows Rd, Maple, and Van Buren considers HAWK signals?

[Tim Kelley]

@consularrider 69489 wrote:

Ok, so in this area are the lights at the W&OD crossings at Gallows Rd, Maple, and Van Buren considers HAWK signals?

This is the location of the latest HAWK signal in Arlington: http://goo.gl/maps/cKvPm

[Kolohe]

@mstone 69466 wrote:

(I refuse to believe that people are refusing to stop at that crosswalk because they don’t know it’s there; if they miss all the giant crosswalk signs they’ll probably also miss the light).

I find the blinky light that marks the crosswalk that crosses Braddock road next to the eponymous Metro station to be hecka useful, as people coming from Yates corner go under the railroad bridge(s) and have a hard time seeing if anyone is at the crosswalk until one’s car is right on top of it.

Though on the other hand, I find the blinky light that crosses Shirlington Road at the end of the W&OD to be widely ignored (and frequently inoperaple) so I almost always use the intersection & traffic light to cross.

but, as you say, both of these are places where traffic is going (or should be going) a lot slower than on the GW parkway. I just find the addition of a blinky light – especially at night – not entirely useless.

(and so far, I’m finding obedience to the new HAWK on Crystal Drive just south of 23rd to be somewhat uneven)

[mstone]

@consularrider 69489 wrote:

Ok, so in this area are the lights at the W&OD crossings at Gallows Rd, Maple, and Van Buren considers HAWK signals?

I’m not sure about all. Gallows at least, IIRC, is just a stop light. A HAWK goes yellow then red on demand, no green.

[oldbikechick]

I wonder if it would help to put a sign with the light, along the lines of “ped in crosswalk when flashing” or something like that. Maybe they already do that. Otherwise, a flashing yellow light with no information as to what it means might not do much good. I have to say that they installed one of these things on Harrison street in North Arlington and I’m not sure it was all that helpful. The traffic calming measures they took at the same time (reducing to two lanes and putting an island in the middle) seem more helpful, if for no other reason than to give pedestrians a safe place to bail out if cars are not stopping, and slowing everyone down. The speeding on the parkway is a major problem. It’s a problem even if you are driving there. When I have to merge onto the GW parkway I always have my heart in my throat and gun it since the sight lines are far too short for the speeds people drive.

[dbb]

The NPS GWMP has delayed the installation of the HAWK signal till early Dec. Please see announcement below:

Mount Vernon Trail Crosswalk at George Washington Memorial Parkway near Arlington Memorial Bridge
The installation of a Rectangular Rapid Flashing (Warning) Beacon at the Mount Vernon Trail crosswalk of the northbound lanes of the Parkway, just prior to Arlington Memorial Bridge and one mile north of I-395, is temporarily delayed until the first week of December. Parkway Staff are taking this additional time to contact traffic specialists in the District of Columbia and Florida, who have considerable experience and information using the flashing beacon warning systems in crosswalk and traffic situations similar to the Parkway. Their experience in initially setting up the warning beacons and the safety statistics they have collected and analyzed from their systems will be invaluable to the National Park Service as we begin to implement the flashing warning beacon for a period of thirty days. The flashing beacon warning system is a trial safety measure to help inform the upcoming Environmental Assessment (EA) process that will evaluate long-term safety and traffic improvements in the area.

[Tim Kelley]

Got a link to something?

[rcannon100]

NPS was present on GW today installing the flashy lights. When I passed by, not much had been achieved, but they were there.

[dbb]

From the NPS this afternoon.

Most recent update below, the installation should be completed tomorrow between AM and PM rush hours.

McLean, VA – The National Park Service, George Washington Memorial Parkway in consultation with the Federal Highway Administration, will be temporarily installing a flashing beacon warning system at the trail crosswalk of the northbound lanes of the Parkway, just prior to Arlington Memorial Bridge, one mile north of I-395. Temporary installation is planned for the week of December 2nd and be in place for approximately thirty days as a trial to help inform the upcoming Environmental Assessment (EA) process that will evaluate long-term safety and traffic improvements in the area.

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