Have a trainer; do I need a 2nd wheel?

[KLizotte]

Hi all, I searched the forum but couldn’t find a thread on this topic.

I have a CycleOps fluid trainer that I use in the winter when I can’t ride outside. I recall reading somewhere in an article that it is better to use very soft tires with trainers because they grip better (plus you won’t wear out your back tire as much). I currently have an All Condition Armadillo Elite on my back tire which is as hard as a rock.

So, I have a spare cassette-less wheel lying around. Is it worth the hassle and expense of getting a cassette put on, buying a soft tire, and then taking the wheel on/off on a frequent basis? Does it really make that much of a difference? I was thinking I could get this all done at Phoenix for next to nothing.

And for the record, I can’t put studs on my bike and I’m not gonna risk another broken bone by biking on ice so I’m stuck with the trainer. I hate winter.

Thanks for any advice!

Topic

[TwoWheelsDC]

@KLizotte 128748 wrote:

Hi all, I searched the forum but couldn’t find a thread on this topic.

I have a CycleOps fluid trainer that I use in the winter when I can’t ride outside. I recall reading somewhere in an article that it is better to use very soft tires with trainers because they grip better (plus you won’t wear out your back tire as much). I currently have an All Condition Armadillo Elite on my back tire which is as hard as a rock.

So, I have a spare cog-less wheel lying around. Is it worth the hassle and expense of getting cogs put on, buying a soft tire, and then taking the wheel on/off on a frequent basis? Does it really make that much of a difference? I was thinking I could get this all done at Phoenix for next to nothing.

And for the record, I can’t put studs on my bike and I’m not gonna risk another broken bone by biking on ice so I’m stuck with the trainer. I hate winter.

Thanks for any advice!

Other way around. You want a very hard tire for the trainer, because the metal rollers increase wear dramatically. Grip shouldn’t be an issue, since you just tighten up the trainer to the tire as needed. You can get a brand-name trainer tire for maybe $35, which seems like a lot, but it will keep you from burning up your road tires. Even if you think your road tires are hard, they will wear very quickly on the trainer.

If I had a spare wheel, I’d definitely set it up solely for trainer use, since you can’t (or rather, shouldn’t) use a trainer tire on the road, and switching wheels is easier than switching tires for the times you want to take the bike outside.

[brendan]

@TwoWheelsDC 128749 wrote:

If I had a spare wheel, I’d definitely set it up solely for trainer use, since you can’t (or rather, shouldn’t) use a trainer tire on the road, and switching wheels is easier than switching tires for the times you want to take the bike outside.

I found that switching rear wheels sometimes leads to minor irritation with slightly-off shifting. Addressing the issue required only fine adjustments to the barrel adjuster(s). But I had to do it every time I was going from wheel to wheel.

It shouldn’t require it…presumably the cassette should be anchored in the same place…but I ran into that issue switching out wheels in the past.

B

[KLizotte]

@brendan 128754 wrote:

I found that switching rear wheels sometimes leads to minor irritation with slightly-off shifting. Addressing the issue required only fine adjustments to the barrel adjuster(s). But I had to do it every time I was going from wheel to wheel.

It shouldn’t require it…presumably the cassette should be anchored in the same place…but I ran into that issue switching out wheels in the past.

B

Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that and I suck at barrel adjustments. On the other hand, if we have another winter like last year the bike won’t be going outside for a couple of months so it wouldn’t much matter.

Someday I’d like a physicist to explain to me why a trainer, which is super smooth, wears down tires so quickly compared to say, asphalt. Just seems counterintuitive if you ask me.

Thanks for the advice all.

[hozn]

@KLizotte 128756 wrote:

Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that and I suck at barrel adjustments. On the other hand, if we have another winter like last year the bike won’t be going outside for a couple of months so it wouldn’t much matter.

Someday I’d like a physicist to explain to me why a trainer, which is super smooth, wears down tires so quickly compared to say, asphalt. Just seems counterintuitive if you ask me.

Thanks for the advice all.

I think the heat of the interface point is a significant factor. Also because the surface area is so much smaller, there needs to be much more pressure against the tire as compared to the rubber on the asphalt to avoid slipping. Perhaps that also exacerbates tire wear.

(Relatedly, rollers don’t wear tires down in the same way.)

Edit: there are actually mixed messages on rollers wearing tires, but I think the majority of the internet says they do not. (And that’s been consistent with my experience, though I don’t spend enough riding indoors to make a significant difference.)

Here’s a good read on maximizing tire life: http://coachlevi.com/cycling/how-to-place-rear-tire-on-stationary-trainer/

In the end, I wouldn’t worry about changing tires, even if you had expensive/supple tires on, unless you plan on riding the trainer on a very regular basis.

[Powerful Pete]

A counter argument: I preferred (before BAFS, that is) using a training tire when riding on a back-wheel type resistance trainer. I found that using a regular tire resulted in abnormal levels of wear and plenty of little black bits of tire all over the area where I used the trainer.

It could have been poor user set-up on my part, but I vote for a spare trainer only wheel.

[KLizotte]

Ahhh….this is the explanation:

“Stationary trainers are known for eating away at rear tires because of the pressure used to press it against the drum. Since the bike doesn’t move or lean like it would outdoors, all this pressure is concentrated on a very small portion of the tire’s tread, leading to a worn out tire.”

Unfortunately I am having to make up for a lack of riding this summer due to a broken ankle and the fact that my gym is currently closed for refurbishment (shakes fist). Therefore I must get into a trainer routine. Convenient but boring as all get out.

[Powerful Pete]

Giro, Tour and Classics videos are very helpful in passing the time while on a trainer… at least for a lackadaisical southern European… :p

[TwoWheelsDC]

@KLizotte 128764 wrote:

Unfortunately I am having to make up for a lack of riding this summer due to a broken ankle and the fact that my gym is currently closed for refurbishment (shakes fist). Therefore I must get into a trainer routine. Convenient but boring as all get out.

Although I hate riding on the trainer, I’ve found that structured workouts do *seem* to give superior fitness results than just riding hard for most of my hour-a-day commute.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@Powerful Pete 128766 wrote:

Giro, Tour and Classics videos are very helpful in passing the time while on a trainer… at least for a lackadaisical southern European… :p

Also, Netflix/Prime video.

[hozn]

Yeah, in my experience, [structured] trainer workouts are much better than just riding outdoors [without structure] — certainly for the same period of time. But just spinning along casually on a trainer does little of value.

[vvill]

I’d vote for buying a spare cassette for any significant amount of trainer riding, you can get a cheap one easily especially if you don’t care about weight. And you can just use old road tires, although I assume trainer specific tires would perform better (never tried them myself).

I keep taking out my trainer and putting it away again without riding it… just can’t bring myself to do it even though I am losing fitness with my lack of outside riding.

[PotomacCyclist]

Vary the workouts to avoid the mind-numbing monotony of an indoor workout. I’m not sure if I’ll get a trainer this winter, but if I do, I plan to keep the workouts to a moderate duration. I might spice up some of the sessions with short sprints. It’s not always easy to sprint outdoors because you have to watch out for various hazards, or you get stopped at an intersection. But you can easily do sprints on a trainer (or spin bike). Just be sure to warm up before doing any high-intensity work.

I might try some Tabata sets too, on the bike and possibly on the run. I don’t want to burn myself out, so I’m not going to do those every week. I will also keep the number of reps/sets lower than during a peak training period. Maybe once every 10-14 days, with just one set of 6-8 reps. So it would be something like a good warm-up (15-20 min., starting easy and moving up to moderate effort and a couple slight pushes into medium-high effort, for a few seconds at a time), then a Tabata set of 6-8 reps of 20 seconds at near-max effort with only 10-20 seconds rest in between reps. A couple easy minutes between sets, if you choose to do more than one set. Then a nice cool-down at the end.

Tabata sets can be tough, so ease into them if you aren’t used to such high-intensity work. Try some easier sessions with a few high-intensity bursts, but with longer recoveries. Then shorten the recoveries on some workouts, until you’re ready to try the minimal-recovery Tabata workout. Some studies show that they can be effective. I just know that they can be very challenging (especially on the run).

Even on easier sessions, I think I might incorporate more drills, including high-cadence drills. That will keep your neuromuscular system sharp and your fast-twitch muscle fibers active. When I do drills (whether on the bike or the run), I don’t want to burn myself out. They aren’t major fitness sessions. They are technique and neuromuscular adaptation sessions. That’s how I see them. Thus, I can do them more frequently than I would a hard type of fitness workout. (You have to be careful about not doing too many of the truly hard workouts, because that’s a good way to get burned out or injured.)

But I don’t know if I want to deal with the fuss with extra wheels and tires. I might just use a spin bike occasionally and CaBi for some outdoor riding (as long as it isn’t too icy outside).

[Author]

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