Hains Pt strava segment hazardous?!

[jabberwocky]

@Mark Blacknell 50106 wrote:

No, they didn’t all come into being, but I’m fairly confident that Strava expanded the pool.

Perhaps, and its definitely true that Strava can “reward” poor behavior (the “reward” is an ultimately meaningless virtual trophy, but still…). I’ve just been on a few rides where some kitted up racer blows by in an inconsiderate fashion, and everyones reaction is that he’s “chasing KOMs”. It might be true, but I can certainly remember the same thing happening long before Strava came onto the scene.

I guess I just think people are a little quick to blame Strava for riders poor behavior sometimes.

[vvill]

Between the social aspect and general metrics I like Strava a lot. I’ve used it successfully to find rides in places I haven’t ridden before. The KOM/placing stuff is fun although when I first joined Strava I also didn’t understand how anyone could be KOM when a segment was flat/descending. I think the flagging thing is actually a bit silly – anyone can ride anywhere dangerously, and anyone can create a new segment the same as a flagged one if they really want an unflagged version. I like using segments to compare my efforts (both with myself and others). There are a few on my regular commute routes that always spur me on. That said, I do agree that having Strava around brings out more idiocy.

@Mark Blacknell 50105 wrote:

(And like I do every time I talk about Strava, I always recommend checking out http://www.ridewithgps.com. Doesn’t have Strava’s app or marketing budget, but it has the best mapping out there, and is better for finding rides in new areas. Also trying very hard on the social side.)

I like RWGPS a lot too. I started off logging all my rides there (eventually imported those records to Strava), and I still (try to) maintain both. They could use a decent web graphics/design person though.

[GuyContinental]

@Mark Blacknell 50105 wrote:

I think Strava works pretty well as a social medium already, no? It has frequently turned people that I’d only know by kits/bikes into real names, and those real names into conversations. It’s let me ask others about roads I know they’ve been on, and certainly found me a lot of interesting rides. It’s also been a great way to keep up with/encourage/heckle friends around the world on their riding.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve met several riders (including Hozn) specifically because of Strava’s formerly excellent “rode with” functionality (they raised the threshold too much and now folks don’t match) but they could do sooooo much more, especially since they really are becoming the dominant player (which is the problem with RWGPS- switching costs) Things it needs:

1. Fred awards (mayors, wattage, cold weather feats, etc)
2. Way better developed gear tracker (the fact that I can’t track mileage on my CX wheelset and road wheelset without creating a bike for each drives me crazy)
3. Better comment sections and easier access to segment discussions
4. “You should ride with this person” matching (Hozn and I have comparable paces, at least when he’s exhausted, and ride 65% of the same commute at essentially the same time- we should meet (and did))
5. Club functionality- BAFS was a great example of a “club feature”
6. Durable awards- I’ve lost a lot more KOMs than I have (damn you Tim…) but I’d love to have a collection of my ex-KOMs
7. Route suggestions- Rider does A-B all the time but most people do A-D instead so suggest a popular route
8. Find a ride (string together popular segments into a ride of x miles)
9. Group rides- identify periodic rides with high user density, allow clubs to “claim them”
10. Segment notes/descriptions (“Watch out for the dragons on under the bridge”)
11. Segment “owners” defined by the top x most frequent riders
12. Basic PM functionality…
and on…

[vvill]

I agree Strava could do SO much more with their data, but they do have APIs at least.

@GuyContinental 50134 wrote:

Strava’s formerly excellent “rode with” functionality (they raised the threshold too much and now folks don’t match)

Yeah this was a bad change. I contacted them about it and they say now you only match if you ride 50%+ of the same segments which makes no sense. Why segments?! (speed up the computing of a match perhaps) I rarely match up with say, Dirt, anymore, who rides to ride starts often on heavily segmented routes like the W&OD. Before, I could ride with someone for 5 mins and then be matched.

[hozn]

@Tim Kelley 50102 wrote:

Including off road sections too?

Personally I think so, yes. I realize that there is a type of racing called downhill racing, but I don’t think we want to encourage amateurs to be doing that on their hardtails — especially on multi-use trails, which I think means everything in this area other than Fountainhead. My friend broke his collarbone in LFP last year on a Strava inspired negative-grade segment effort. Another acquaintance went into a coma and cut off most of his ear (helmet strap, but helmet surely saved his life) racing down a hill in Patapsco. It’s really easy to fall on off-road trails — misjudge how close to the trail that tree is, come upon a rock that wasn’t in the trail the last time, etc. When the fall is a slow-speed fall (like me clipping my bar and plunging into a mud puddle on Tuesday), then it’s not such a big deal, but when you add 20+mph speeds to the mix the consequences go way up.

[hozn]

@jabberwocky 50104 wrote:

Meh. To be honest, while there are a lot of stupid segments on Strava, I don’t really see it as my job to play segment police. The reality is that the people who would blow a light across a major highway to get a pointless virtual trophy would probably be doing it without Strava anyway. Its not like those people suddenly came into being when Strava came onto the scene.

The reality is that any segment can be dangerous if people are riding aggressively to get KOMs. The real world isn’t a race track. It has stop signs and lights and other people who aren’t out there racing and dogs and kids and cars and… you get the picture. I’m fine with people making whatever segment they want, because its ultimately up to the people riding to ride responsibly.

Well, the way I see it, segments only exist for KOMs (or leaderboards). I think that if getting on the leaderboard would require unsafe or illegal riding, then it’s perfectly legitimate to flag a segment. You’re right that idiots existed before Strava, but by setting it up as a competition Strava makes it much more likely (and therefore frequent) for riders to start “trying for” these potentially unsafe segments. Don’t get me wrong, I love Strava. I love segment goals — and perpetually chasing Tim’s times on my neighborhood hills But I also do feel a sense of some responsibility to note when segments are setting up unsafe competition; flagging a segment takes all of 5 seconds.

[jabberwocky]

I just don’t agree that so much blame lies with Strava. I mean, strava inspired crashes?! You take responsibility for yourself. If you’re chasing a strava segment and crash, thats your own dumbass fault (and I say that as someone who has had far more than his share of crashes as a result of being a dumbass).

[jabberwocky]

@GuyContinental 50134 wrote:

1. Fred awards (mayors, wattage, cold weather feats, etc)
2. Way better developed gear tracker (the fact that I can’t track mileage on my CX wheelset and road wheelset without creating a bike for each drives me crazy)
3. Better comment sections and easier access to segment discussions
4. “You should ride with this person” matching (Hozn and I have comparable paces, at least when he’s exhausted, and ride 65% of the same commute at essentially the same time- we should meet (and did))
5. Club functionality- BAFS was a great example of a “club feature”
6. Durable awards- I’ve lost a lot more KOMs than I have (damn you Tim…) but I’d love to have a collection of my ex-KOMs
7. Route suggestions- Rider does A-B all the time but most people do A-D instead so suggest a popular route
8. Find a ride (string together popular segments into a ride of x miles)
9. Group rides- identify periodic rides with high user density, allow clubs to “claim them”
10. Segment notes/descriptions (“Watch out for the dragons on under the bridge”)
11. Segment “owners” defined by the top x most frequent riders
12. Basic PM functionality…
and on…

I hadn’t thought of most of these, but a lot of them are really good ideas. Strava definitely has a very interesting dataset (who is riding, when/where they ride, their pace, ride frequency, etc). It would be really cool to see that put to use.

[hozn]

Fair enough. I’m not trying to say it’s Strava’s fault per se, but I think it’s reasonable to suggest that the tool enables behavior (or more of it). I just think that when you create a competition, then [competitive] people will do things they wouldn’t have otherwise done — maybe just push themselves a little harder. And pushing yourself harder on a bike — especially down a hill or on a technical course — is going to increase the likelihood of accidents. I agree that ultimately people are responsible for their actions, but I think Strava should have some responsibility to see that they’re not enabling dangerous behavior (which I think they have done by providing an easy flagging mechanism). I view this as essentially a lesser degree of the responsibility that a race coordinator might have to make sure that a course is safe.

[Mark Blacknell]

@jabberwocky 50148 wrote:

I just don’t agree that so much blame lies with Strava. I mean, strava inspired crashes?! You take responsibility for yourself. If you’re chasing a strava segment and crash, thats your own dumbass fault (and I say that as someone who has had far more than his share of crashes as a result of being a dumbass).

I’m not concerned about the dumbass who crashes chasing the Gravelly Point segment. I’m concerned about everyone else on the trail. This reminds me of another conversation about imposing the external costs of choices on other people . . .

[hozn]

@jabberwocky 50149 wrote:

I hadn’t thought of most of these, but a lot of them are really good ideas. Strava definitely has a very interesting dataset (who is riding, when/where they ride, their pace, ride frequency, etc). It would be really cool to see that put to use.

Yeah, I’ve talked w/ GuyC a lot about this, but the marketing potentials are HUGE here too. I appreciate the ad-free experience, but I think they could actually partner with companies and do things like send you a coupon to universalcycles when they notice that your chain has 3k miles on it. Or coupons to local bike-friendly businesses that you ride by … that are open when you ride by them. The potential is really endless given how much data they have about me.

[GuyContinental]

@hozn 50155 wrote:

Yeah, I’ve talked w/ GuyC a lot about this, but the marketing potentials are HUGE here too. I appreciate the ad-free experience, but I think they could actually partner with companies and do things like send you a coupon to universalcycles when they notice that your chain has 3k miles on it. Or coupons to local bike-friendly businesses that you ride by … that are open when you ride by them. The potential is really endless given how much data they have about me.

Xnay on my iznessideabay!

[Mark Blacknell]

@GuyContinental 50157 wrote:

Xnay on my iznessideabay!

Right, because then we’re going to have to talk about VC-directed “improvements” to businesses

[jabberwocky]

@Mark Blacknell 50153 wrote:

I’m not concerned about the dumbass who crashes chasing the Gravelly Point segment. I’m concerned about everyone else on the trail. This reminds me of another conversation about imposing the external costs of choices on other people . . .

Maybe things are different on the more crowded trails in towards DC (which I admit I don’t ride much). I haven’t really seen a rise in poor behavior out in the hinterlands since the advent of Strava. I admit that sometimes when someone blows by me on the trail, I sometimes check and see if there is a strava segment there when I get home. But most of the time there isn’t.

@hozn 50155 wrote:

Yeah, I’ve talked w/ GuyC a lot about this, but the marketing potentials are HUGE here too. I appreciate the ad-free experience, but I think they could actually partner with companies and do things like send you a coupon to universalcycles when they notice that your chain has 3k miles on it. Or coupons to local bike-friendly businesses that you ride by … that are open when you ride by them. The potential is really endless given how much data they have about me.

I was thinking more social stuff (like, I hit that I’m looking for ride partners to ride Lake Fairfax on weekdays after work, and Strava could put that out there to people who ride Lake Fairfax on weekdays at about my pace). I also like some of the ideas regarding segment ownership and comments/notes and such. The social side is pretty clunky (even commenting on friends rides isn’t that smooth; its a pain to follow conversations on Strava, especially compared to FB and such).

I could also see ride planning being popular there. Map out a future ride, set a description and date/time and all your followers/friends can see it.

[jrenaut]

If you all get the VC, I’ll help with coding.

[Author]

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