Guys – don’t shout at women

[KLizotte]

@Steve O 160960 wrote:

This thread was top of mind today when I encountered a rider who had stopped on the Rosslyn hill and was staring at her bike. No, I didn’t yell at her, but I stopped to see if I could help. It was a simple fix (she had overshifted her derailleur and the chain had gotten stuck). I was as respectful and kind as I’m capable of (shut up, everyone), but I just don’t know if the fact that I waited until she was up and riding along might be considered demeaning or not. She told me I could go ahead (she had to walk up the hill a bit to get to a flatter spot), but I waited anyway. I’m not sure if I would have with a man.

It seems like a tricky line to tread: did I unintentionally make her feel like a stupid, helpless woman? Or not?

Is just the fact that I was a man helping out a woman create a sexist dynamic a priori?

Speaking as a woman with almost zero bike mechanic skills (I’m really good at home repairs though) I’ve been helped out by more random guys than I can count and was always very, very grateful even when they explained things I already knew since I see them being offered in good faith and they have no idea what I do or do not know. Fortunately none of the guys were creepy. And if a guy hangs back to make sure that I’m truly A-OK then I consider that being a true gentleman. She probably told you to go ahead because she didn’t want to hold you up any longer and may have been a bit embarrassed having to walk. I would have told you it was okay to move on as well in most cases. But overall I’ve been super impressed by how helpful guys have been on the trails. Thank you!

I’ve also helped a bunch of guys and gals with flat tires over the years and no one has ever acted annoyed or embarrassed, including the guys.

I suspect some women have had creepy men approach them and are a bit leery after a bad episode or else just aren’t aware of the “pay it forward” mentality of the cycling community. I admit that I’m beyond the age that most men would want to harass so perhaps it’s a different experience for the younger, skinny ones.

But please don’t hesitate to offer help.

[Lt. Dan]

“do you need help”…. that’s not acceptable? Are you kidding me?

[Tania]

@Lt. Dan 161005 wrote:

“do you need help”…. that’s not acceptable? Are you kidding me?

I’ve said this to men and received almost growling negative responses. “Got everything you need?” works better for both genders.

[Vicegrip]

@jrenaut 161001 wrote:

Yeah, I love that phrase. I was changing a flat along the W&OD and someone said that to me. It assumes competence but lets you ask for help without wounding your pride.

Agree. It is my go to as well. This is how W&OD trail patrol teaches you to offer help. An open offer not because it looks like you need it but because it is right to offer. It is also why I joined them. I always offer but now I have a easy to see reason.

I can make a bike from scrap metal but I also got caught out during a road group ride with a flat and a tube with a too short stem. We all have or good and bad moments.

We need to reset and think that people mean well until strong evidence says otherwise. There are plenty of creeps and stuck ups but I still think goodhearted people outnumber them. “You need any help” means “Hi fellow bike rider on the side of the road, can a small bit of help or spare part on my part help fix a big problem you are stuck with and let me pay forward the solid someone did for me last summer?” Not “Hey you sorry unprepared dumbass, Can I show you how a real Man/woman does that?”

[dasgeh]

I think the blog post is great for starting the conversation. People from lots of different walks are speaking up on the issue, and in my experience, this will lead to change for the better.

And for the record, yes, I get treated differently because I’m a woman. All. The. Time. My experience is more around advocacy and less around fixing bikes, but women are treated differently in the conference room as well as on the trails/in the bike shops. Those who know me know I don’t suffer this lightly. I have no problem speaking up for myself. But, man, it gets exhausting. And if I had a penis, I wouldn’t have to. That sucks.

@TwoWheelsDC 160873 wrote:

#actually instead of just agreeing with you, let me identify all the ways many of the examples of the bad behavior I observe don’t seem technically sexist in order to minimize the role that I myself have played in the perpetuation of the patriarchy because I have totally done those things…but not because she was a woman!!

This is my favorite response so far.

[KLizotte]

@Tania 161006 wrote:

I’ve said this to men and received almost growling negative responses. “Got everything you need?” works better for both genders.

I prefer “do you need help” because it implies the person is willing to offer tools, advice, and even hands-on assistance. “Do you have everything you need” implies they are only willing to offer a spare tube or use of a tool and that I know what I’m doing. I’m much more inclined to ask the former over than the latter especially if I have all the needed stuff to make a repair. Asking obvious newbies if they need help usually illicits an expression of relief and a big “yes”.

Then again, I only care about inconveniencing someone else, not whether they think I’m an idiot or not.

[lordofthemark]

@eminva 160995 wrote:

I also wonder if the out of shape men I see struggling on the trail don’t feel the same condescension? If not worse? And would they admit it if they did? I imagine the “entitled macho nonsense” might be an even bigger barrier for men who are not part of the lycra fraternity.

I wouldn’t call myself out of shape, but I definitely continue to ride more slowly than most of the people on this forum, in my strava feed, etc. I have certainly observed a lot of unsafe passing behavior – too close, no calls, etc. But I don’t think I have ever heard the kind of condescending remarks from cyclists directed at me that many women have reported hearing.

[scoot]

@Judd 160953 wrote:

24% of cyclists who are women as WABA states

I’m curious about this number. Did WABA share how they generated that?

I figure the result would vary greatly depending on how it is defined. Is it normalized per person, per mile, per hour, etc.? On top of that, each of us would come up with a different anecdotal percentage based on where and when we are making observations. If one person is counting riders at midnight on Wilson Blvd, and another is watching the 15th St cycletrack at rush hour, I wouldn’t expect them to get the same gender ratios.

[Judd]

Tried to find the source for the 24% figure. I seem to recall it being some sort of survey data. I tweeted at WABA to see if they could point to the source.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Judd]

I really appreciate of my women cyclists offering their thoughts and experiences around WABA’s article. I’ve had the opportunity to ride with most of you or at least chat at a coffee club and you’re all awesome women and awesome cyclists and I’m glad that you haven’t let negative experiences prevent you from riding.

I’m also super grateful for my primary riding partner Komorebi, who I became friends with during Bike to Work Week last year. In just over a year Strava indicates that we have ridden 367 hours together and she’s made me a kinder, more courteous cyclist by always modeling good trail behavior.

[dkel]

Regarding whether or how to offer trailside help, we have totally had this conversation before.

[komorebi]

@Judd 161017 wrote:

she’s made me a kinder, more courteous cyclist

Well, except for that time I fell over in front of you while trying to unclip, and it took you about five minutes to stop laughing and help me get upright again. But not to worry, I’ve forgiven you. Mostly.

No, I’m kidding. In all seriousness, I’m grateful to you and all of the other male cyclists I’ve met through the forum for helping me with flat tires and broken chains, going out of your way to make sure I got home safely after Midnight Saddles rides or other late-night events, waiting patiently while I slowly huffed and puffed my way up hills, generously sharing your knowledge about bikes and gear, volunteering your time and skills to get more people on bikes and make the DC area a better place to ride, and inspiring me to ride further, longer, and under worse conditions than I could have imagined just a few years ago.

I said earlier that I’ve encountered plenty of rude male cyclists – but the ones I’ve met through this forum aren’t among that crowd. You all are awesome. (And the female cyclists I’ve met through the forum are equally awesome.)

[Judd]

@Judd 161014 wrote:

Tried to find the source for the 24% figure. I seem to recall it being some sort of survey data. I tweeted at WABA to see if they could point to the source.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Preliminary response from WABA is that it’s from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scoot]

@Judd 161025 wrote:

Preliminary response from WABA is that it’s from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey.

Thanks. That would suggest that the 24% might be a simple fraction of people, i.e. 24% of people who self-identify as cyclists are women. If so, it would not include any weighting for time spent riding or total distance traveled.

[LhasaCM]

@scoot 161026 wrote:

Thanks. That would suggest that the 24% might be a simple fraction of people, i.e. 24% of people who self-identify as cyclists are women. If so, it would not include any weighting for time spent riding or total distance traveled.

According to a People For Bikes blog post from a couple of years back (http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/new-research-on-womens-bicycling-participation-reveals-insightsand-some-sur), the 2009 National Household Travel Survey found that 24% of bicycle trips were made by women. That’s similar to a study that was done of bikeshare usage in NYC, Chicago, and Boston covering part of 2013. However, a survey from 2014 found that, of the 104 million people who rode a bike the previous year, 43% were women.

It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of the 2016 NHTS once the data is published (collected just ended, so publication is slated for early 2018).

[Author]

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