Guts, Gravel, Glory (6 Aug in Chesterfield, VA)

[Sunyata]

I did it last year. It was pretty meh… It is a short-ish loop (6ish miles, if I recall correctly), and is run kind of like a cyclocross race where the race is done when the leader crosses the finish line. I only got in about 38 miles last year after having a major mechanical in the first lap (I got lapped twice, I think).

I am doing an adventure race on the 6th, so not doing GGG this year. But honestly, after this year’s Monster Cross debacle, I am not sure I am ever going to do another one of Junkerman’s races. 😡

[ChampionTier]

@Sunyata 163375 wrote:

I did it last year. It was pretty meh… It is a short-ish loop (6ish miles, if I recall correctly), and is run kind of like a cyclocross race where the race is done when the leader crosses the finish line. I only got in about 38 miles last year after having a major mechanical in the first lap (I got lapped twice, I think).

I am doing an adventure race on the 6th, so not doing GGG this year. But honestly, after this year’s Monster Cross debacle, I am not sure I am ever going to do another one of Junkerman’s races. 😡

I did the beginner race last year and had a pretty decent time; it was my third bike race and at that point they all seemed exciting. Monster Cross was nuts and though I wound up enjoying it overall, I wonder if the debacle you’re referring to was the clamorous mass start which (in my opinion) set conditions for the horrible pile-up ~3 miles into the race or the way the air medvac was handled? At any rate, my hope is that there were some applied lessons learned from it. I’ll give it another chance and let you know how it goes if you like.

Cheers, CT

[Sunyata]

@ChampionTier 163382 wrote:

Monster Cross was nuts and though I wound up enjoying it overall, I wonder if the debacle you’re referring to was the clamorous mass start which (in my opinion) set conditions for the horrible pile-up ~3 miles into the race or the way the air medvac was handled?

The start of Monster Cross (and really, any other mass start race) is generally a cluster. The air medevac was fine, it was the way Junkerman handled the aftermath of that that really left a bad taste in my mouth, especially with respect to the results. Bike racing is inherently dangerous. We all know the risks. Unfortunately, bad crashes happen. As a race director, you never want it to happen at your event. But, you must be prepared (which he NEVER is – I have stopped to render aid at multiple of his events because there was no onsite EMS) for a medical emergency and be prepared to handle stopping and restarting a race if necessary. You should also continue to be able to function as a race director, even if there is a tragic event on the course. Be courteous to those still racing, acknowledge that there was a tragic event that took place (information is important), offer support to those that may need it, and communicate what you need to in order to keep those that paid for your event in the loop about the race, their standings, and take feedback seriously.

Sorry about the rant.

[ChampionTier]

Ahh yes, understand all… rant away. I had read on one message board that the LZ was fouled due to riders getting in the way, but I was light years away from where it took place so I didn’t see for myself. Then again the place is loaded with trees so I wonder if that was really the issue. Apparently when they did stop traffic one racer blew right by the evac.

I was frustrated by the lack of results, too. Though I finished in my mid-pack standard, the nerd in me really wanted to stare at the data. I feel horrible for the lady who crashed; her life is forever changed, but I couldn’t wrap my head around why that was the reason for delayed results.

[Tania]

@ChampionTier 163438 wrote:

but I couldn’t wrap my head around why that was the reason for delayed results.

It’s impossible to get enough volunteers for events and he scores riders BY HAND. I helped out at last year’s GGG and someone calls out the number, and another person inputs it into what looks like a big adding machine (with tape and all). I imagine that people got pulled from scoring to help with the emergency since that takes precedence over results. Plus he needed to figure out who got held up, who didn’t and factor that into the times.

[ChampionTier]

@Tania 163439 wrote:

I imagine that people got pulled from scoring to help with the emergency since that takes precedence over results. Plus he needed to figure out who got held up, who didn’t and factor that into the times.

Makes sense. Maybe I overestimate the automated ease and fullness of scoring and accountability when using chips.

[Anonymous]

He didn’t adjust times based on who got held up (nor do I think there would have been a way to do that fairly–I’m not criticizing that but it wasn’t something that was done that made things take longer), and no one was finishing during the evacuation because it was about 1 minute in front of the finish line, so it shouldn’t have mattered if the scoring volunteers had to help with the crash. And wasn’t Monster Cross chip timed? I could be remembering wrong… (i know there is still some human involvement but aren’t you then paying the scoring company to do that as a separate thing from race volunteers?). I personally don’t care too much that the results were slow but the email sent out chastising everyone for caring about them was pretty obnoxious.

[ChampionTier]

Correct, MC was chip-timed (I only remember this because I almost forgot to toss my lo-jack into the bucket and in my post-race-dehydration/exhiliration/disorientation/find-the-beer-station I couldn’t figure out why the two youngsters were talking about my ankles). And if the rumor that someone was darting around the evac to finish is untrue then that’s a plus. It’s good to read these responses and get some clarity on what went down.

I just re-read the e-mail that he sent out about the results; very pithy and clipped. I’m sure in the chaos of all that happened in the days that followed he was getting bombarded by requests for info and maybe felt overwhelmed. I briefly wondered if he went dark for a few days to assess any potential legal woes that might’ve ensued before making any public statements. But to Sunyata’s point, anytime I’ve been in charge of delivering bad news or managing a bad situation, I never thought that I’d have to apologize for transparency (minus next of kin or other sensitive stuff).

GGG ’17 only has 14ish riders signed up which makes it a bite-sized gaggle compared to MC. Good or bad, I hope it’s more manageable for the RRR team.

[Tania]

Maybe MC was chip timed, I remember having to turn something in after the race. Give the guy a break – he had a MAJOR accident to deal with (plus several other smaller ones). Perhaps everyone who is complaining about it or pestered him for results can take charge of it next year.

[Anonymous]

@ChampionTier 163445 wrote:

And if the rumor that someone was darting around the evac to finish is untrue then that’s a plus.

wow, really?

I can’t say for a fact that this didn’t happen initially, but I was at the closure for about 15-20 minutes while the evac was occurring and no one tried to do any such thing while I was there. While I was at the tail-end of the field and just finishing up my first lap so who really cares about an extra 15 minutes– I know there were some of the elite racers who were held up from finishing-finishing (and fairly high up in placement probably) but no one was trying to go around.

[ChampionTier]

@Amalitza 163448 wrote:

wow, really?

I can’t say for a fact that this didn’t happen initially, but I was at the closure for about 15-20 minutes while the evac was occurring and no one tried to do any such thing while I was there. While I was at the tail-end of the field and just finishing up my first lap so who really cares about an extra 15 minutes– I know there were some of the elite racers who were held up from finishing-finishing (and fairly high up in placement probably) but no one was trying to go around.

Until now, all I had in terms of the backstory was from this forum: http://forums.mtbr.com/cyclocross/monstercross-pocahontas-bad-crash-today-1034829.html

[Judd]

@Tania 163446 wrote:

Maybe MC was chip timed, I remember having to turn something in after the race. Give the guy a break – he had a MAJOR accident to deal with (plus several other smaller ones). Perhaps everyone who is complaining about it or pestered him for results can take charge of it next year.

When I worked for the Boy Scouts I loved when people complained about something, because it was the easiest way to ask them to volunteer to be responsible for it.

[Sunyata]

@Tania 163446 wrote:

Maybe MC was chip timed, I remember having to turn something in after the race. Give the guy a break – he had a MAJOR accident to deal with (plus several other smaller ones). Perhaps everyone who is complaining about it or pestered him for results can take charge of it next year.

Let me review what happened the first year I raced MC… A guy went down hard on a wooden bridge within the first five miles and broke his neck. Myself, an army medic, and a neurologist spent over an hour with the patient holding c-spine and providing as much support as possible while we waited for EMS to arrive, who were NOT on scene. They came from a volunteer house several miles away, did not know the area, had to figure out how to get the patient out of the park, etc. I ended up finishing the race after getting lost on course. I talked with the race director afterwards and offered my services to help RRR come up with an emergency plan and give him contacts to hire out EMS for the day to be on site and provide extrication services to that EMS group prior to the race. He said he would think about it and let me know. Never heard back from him.

The next several races, there was still no EMS on site. I think that might have changed last year, but I can not recall. Either way, he still has no emergency operations plan. I am shocked the park has not required him to have that, since it is a huge liability.

My gripe is not necessarily that the results were delayed. Shit happens, I get that (I deal with it on a daily basis). It was his handling of the situation that causes my gripe. In addition, I have a more personal gripe with the way he handled correcting the results (or, lack of correcting) when there was an issue. But, that really only affects me and a small handful of others. Getting snippy with his client base was uncalled for. A MUCH better response would have been something along the lines of: Hey guys, I am sorry it is taking so long to get the results to everyone who raced. For those that may not know, there was a tragic crash and one of your fellow racers is in critical condition. My focus right now is on supporting her and her family. I know everyone is anxious to know their results, but please be patient during this difficult time. I am hoping to have the timing sorted out and preliminary results posted by XX date.

See how much better that reads? (This is regardless of the fact that the race was chip timed and there were so many flaws in the timing that my brain hurt trying to figure out what went wrong.) Again, communication is important. Letting everyone know what is going on and when to expect more communication is critical.

(Again, apologies for the rant! Not directed at you, Tania.)

[Anonymous]

@ChampionTier 163450 wrote:

Until now, all I had in terms of the backstory was from this forum: http://forums.mtbr.com/cyclocross/monstercross-pocahontas-bad-crash-today-1034829.html

Yeah, so like I said, I can’t say for sure that nothing like that happened before I arrived, but I’m skeptical that is particularly accurate for a couple reasons.

[ChampionTier]

Not sure if this is additive to the conversation, but I thought it might be fair to post some notes from this weekend’s GGG.

Overall, I’d say the race went well (though for Your’s Truly it was a catastrophe).

The course:

• Same as last year. Due to the overall dry weather they’d had the trail was hard-packed and very fast (minus the mushy sand areas).
• As you’d expect, the dryness also made for some dusty conditions, especially at the start; some good coordination among the riders calling out hazards in the limited visibility mitigated some of the risk. 1/3 of the way through the first lap when I got my 2nd flat I had a pretty sweet dirt tan going.

Support:

• Pretty ace. About 1/4 mile from the finish was an aid station and one of the guys working there dialed in the pressure on my rear wheel (which carried me another mile or so before my 3rd flat)…and after my 3rd flat as I finished my 3-mile hike to the truck he ran up and gave me a Gatorade.
• There was no visible EMT support for this race; however, when I asked the lady working the registration booth for contact info for anyone who might be able to help in an emergency she gave me a direct line to the Pocahontas Park ranger station.

By way of results, I got the initial report as I sulked in my truck while stuck in traffic on I-95 (but waited to verify my DNF until I was no longer behind the wheel, of course).

You can see the first lap of the B-Race in all its greatness here. I’ve edited out all parts where I was fixing flats.

Edit: Event was chip timed.

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