Garmin Edge 810 and Edge 510 released

[jabberwocky]

Yeah, my first thought was “2 years of development and thats all we get?!”. I mean, smartphone integration would be nice and such, but as far as I can tell the basic stuff (gps receiver, screen, etc) are all still the same as the 800.

To be honest, at this point I think Garmin is gonna have their lunch eaten by smartphones… with bluetooth HR monitors, various tracking apps, sports cases and online tracking, the case for something like the edge is getting harder to make…

[Bilsko]

@jabberwocky 39806 wrote:

with bluetooth HR monitors, various tracking apps, sports cases and online tracking, the case for something like the edge is getting harder to make…

Any suggestions for a good bluetooth HR monitor that would pair with Android apps? I’ve never kept track of HR, but if the barrier to entry were low enough (read: I dont have to spend hundreds of dollar$) then I’d consider it.
I used the Android app for Strava ride recording and would love to be able to add HR data to that, but I don’t think the app is set up to accept it. Not sure how I’d get around that.

[vvill]

Interesting mention of using GLONASS for signal tracking in addition to GPS on the 510. Other than that, sounds mostly like social networking updates via Bluetooth to your smartphone. Having more bikes and having the ride types is nice but really I’m sure they could’ve done that in an existing firmware update if they’d really wanted. Can’t really see myself getting either of these.

I don’t have a smartphone so I do like having a dedicated Garmin, and I appreciate my 500’s tactile buttons (vs touchscreens).

[Dirt]

I don’t see much in the 810 that I would use. I”m super stoked that it came out though. It lets me get a spare 800 at a more reasonable price.

The smart phone option really doesn’t makes sense for me. I travel enough and go areas where I don’t have any coverage often enough that I’ll keep using my 800.

[Bilsko]

@Dirt 39816 wrote:

The smart phone option really doesn’t makes sense for me. I travel enough and go areas where I don’t have any coverage often enough that I’ll keep using my 800.

I certainly worry about this from time to time – the phone GPS is generally reliable and has few coverage gaps, but I suspect it craps out more often than Garmin units for recording.

[americancyclo]

@Bilsko 39812 wrote:

Any suggestions for a good bluetooth HR monitor that would pair with Android apps?

The Zephyr is mentioned for compatibility with Strava.

[Bilsko]

@americancyclo 39819 wrote:

The Zephyr is mentioned for compatibility with Strava.

Thanks – also, it looks like Strava on Android can deal with Bluetooth biometric data just fine: https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/22118588-android-and-external-biometric-sensors

Edit: Reading a bit more it looks like the Zephyr is the only supported device right now.
So, choice is $80 for Zephyr + Android Strava or… $250-$300 for Garmin.

[jabberwocky]

Just to be clear, I don’t know that smartphones are quite ready *now* to replace the Edges, just that it seems inevitable in the near future given the incredibly rapid pace of advancement in smartphone fitness apps and tech and the glacial pace of Garmins fitness GPS units.

I kinda see Garmin as in the same position Blackberry was 6 years ago. Dominant because nobody was competing with them in their niche, but ignoring the fact that a whole new segment was about to make them obsolete. *shrug*

[krazygl00]

The only thing that would keep me from making the leap to just using my smartphone is the fact that no smartphone, by the nature of it having a speaker and a mic that need unobstructed access to the air, is as weather-resistant as the sealed garmin units. Probably not as rugged either; my 750 is a tough little chunk of electronics. And I would be that guy who would get caught riding in the rain and forget to put away his smartphone until…poof…ruined phone.

[DaveK]

I still use my FR305, but what will ultimately get me to upgrade is the live tracking feature on the new Edge computers. My wife worries when I’m out on a long ride sometimes and this would be an easy way to keep in contact. I would just want to see what the BT pairing and (relatively) regular data exchange between the phone and the Garmin does to my battery life. I can’t use my phone as a GPS on long rides, so if this will eat my battery life, it won’t do much for me.

[Arlingtonrider]

Can fog disrupt satellite signals? I got alerts three or four times from my Garmin Edge 500 today that said low B3 or B4 or something like that (i didn’t have my glasses on), followed by a four digit number. I thought it might be low battery, but when I got home, the battery was almost fully charged. I had no problem downloading my ride. The owner’s manual doesn’t mention anything like that. Has anyone else gotten those?

[rcannon100]

A GPS signal is a relatively weak signal that can be messed up by just about anything. Dont know what the error messages were, but yes, weather conditions can impact GPS signals.

Garmin and innovation

Garmin’s business plan was that it was doing something that had a high barrier to entry and had little competition: mapping and navigation. Then came google and exploded that business model. Garmin use to sell Map updates for devices for like $100. Then you could buy like a years update for $100, sort of a subscription model. Now, map updates come free with the device. Because Google, Apple and Microsoft all offer maps. How would you like to be in a market against those three?

Traffic use to be a premium service that you had to buy on a subscription basis. But Google offers it for free. Now its free on Garmin as well (one time price up front with the purchase of the device)

Looking at the last annual report, in 2009 70 percent of Garmin’s revenue came from automotive navigation. But now that comes built in and that, more than anything, competes with smart phones with google maps. Automotive made up just over 50% of garmin’s revenue in 2011.

Over that time, outdoor and fitness has made up more and more of garmin’s revenue. I would guess that is a form factor issue. Google maps dont yet go on your handlebar too well. I mean, what is the difference between a Garmin Edge and a Forerunner or an Oregon. It’s not the computer. Its not the software. Its the form factor. There is no reason one device can do what a cyclist or a runner or a geocacher wants. The difference today is a handlebar or a watch or a backbpack.

So why dont Garmin devices improve that much? Well this is the theory of economic cannibalism. If they improve that much, they will do themselves out of the market. Make a device that can easily do running and cycling. Sure. But then they would lose revenue because people currently have to buy two devices or an expensive multisport. Will someone come out with a device in 2 years that can do this, with an efficient battery, based on google maps? Yup. The era of smart phones and smart small devices, is taking over single function devices (anyone still carry around a pocket camera any more)?

Garmin’s revenue in 2007 was 2.7m. This is after three years of volatility and decline. It’s hard to say what Wallstreet thinks. The stock is currently valued at 39.6, a value it first obtained in 2006. There was a huge spike in value going in 2008, and a crash – and then its been pretty flat.

Would not be surprised that Garmin’s strategy is to get acquired by one of the bigger companies. It is going to be really hard for them to remain a stand alone navigation device company for much longer.

[vvill]

@rcannon100 40466 wrote:

The era of smart phones and smart small devices, is taking over single function devices (anyone still carry around a pocket camera any more)?

I often still carry a separate “pocket camera”, mp3 player, Garmin and a flip phone. And a bottle opener on my keychain. (But my 4 year old has a Nexus 7.)

FWIW, I like most of my devices a lot (I’m clumsy and I have dropped all four of those above on various hard surfaces many times with only minor bits of cosmetic damage – I’ve seen smartphones (or at least their screens) go kaputt much easier.) I like the Garmin’s form factor for the bike, the battery life, tactile buttons, weatherproofing, and all the bike specific functions built in (including ANT+ for power meters).

Garmin has a decent size user base already so I don’t think they will go under quite yet if they continue to produce hardier, purpose-built units. Ever since map data became freely available people have been predicting their demise. I wonder more about the market for traditional bike computer companies. I used to have a Sigma and several Cateyes and will likely never buy another non-GPS bike computer.

Also Garmin in the budding bike racer market has the niche of being a fair bit more affordable than SRM but still “pro”.

[rcannon100]

And then there was this……

Garmin Shares Tumble As Q4 Results Miss Expectations

Garmin seems to have lost its way.

The producer of navigation products this morning posted weaker-than-expected Q4 financial results and soft 2013 guidance, triggering a sell-off in the company’s shares.

[mstone]

I think garmin is doomed. They need to figure out how to move from being a high-margin company to a low-margin company, and that’s something the companies aren’t good at (and that wall street rarely allows). I’d love a 510, but it’s not worth that much to me. What I’d really like is a 200+, that captures data and then auto-syncs it to the cloud. I don’t really want/need the fancy display, just the data collection. But if they were to release that, it would probably eat the market from the 5 & 8 series, and I don’t know that they’re willing/able to do that.

[Author]

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