FreshBikes Tuesday Night Ride Postponed Indefinitely?

[hozn]

@dkel 115145 wrote:

Is the problem with the ride marshals, then? I’ve been on a couple of mid-sized rides, and though not very big, they’ve been big enough to blow through intersections en masse if that had been the way the marshals had run it, but they didn’t. Perhaps some (or all) of the responsibility lies with the organizers. I say this as a fan (and sometime customer) of FreshBikes, though not as someone who has been on their ride.

What marshalls? Do you mean the police? This is not a marshalled ride. The police escort fades out after the Sycamore/Williamsburg intersection, whereupon riders are on their own as far as expectations to obey traffic rules. (Again, my experience is that everyone waited at stop lights, people do roll stop signs — especially the one from Powhattan to Williamsburg, but there’s a very good line of sight to the left there.) The only thing that ever felt unsafe to me on this ride was the traffic (drivers clearly being deliberate in passing too close) and the deterioration of the roads (continuing to improve as they’re apparently repaving Military).

[Tim Kelley]

@Starduster 115143 wrote:

Your PAL Ambassador has spoken. I’m with him.

You are ALL PAL Ambassadors!

[ShawnoftheDread]

@Tim Kelley 115150 wrote:

You are ALL PAL Ambassadors!

“If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.”

[rcannon100]

Recently Marymount University ran a 5K through the same neighborhood. The notice to the neighborhood was poor. During the 5K, people’s access to and from their own houses was cut off.

Other than noting that notice really needed to be better (actual notice to the door), the neighborhood community association seems to have come out in support of MU and the 5K. They are engaging MU on how to have the 5K come off better next time.

The one diff is that the MU 5K was on a weekend morning, while the Freshbikes ride is at the end of Rush Hour.

These interests need to be balanced, and if there is a way of doing it, we may find support in the community. I think the community supports these types of community based, neighborhood building activities. But yeah, impairing people’s access to and from their own homes isnt grand – and throwing traffic load into rush hour will cause consternation.

[AlexandriaBiker]

I have not been on a Fresh Bikes Tuesday Night Ride before, but I will be when they return…

[PotomacCyclist]

“If nominated, I shall run to Mexico. If elected, I shall fight extradition.”

[bobco85]

In my experience having done the ride a couple of times, I did not notice any major law-breaking of running through stop signs and red lights. There were Idaho stops, but no red light running, even though some of those lights are painful (loss of momentum, ugh!) when they turn red before you get there after a big hill.

That said, I do have concerns regarding safety in other areas. First, the ride is populated by a lot of riders who are inexperienced with riding in groups (spacing, communication, wheel-overlapping, etc.) that can make things a little hairy when groups get bunched up and ride fast. Second, the bike lane is obviously not going to hold people riding 2-3 abreast, so there is a lot of riding in the main travel lanes which makes it harder for drivers to safely pass (the more aggressive and impatient ones will try to pass anyways, though).

I don’t think this ride should be cancelled, but it definitely needs some tweaking. I would split the main group into smaller groups about 5 minutes apart. Each of those groups would need a ride marshall (this could be easily done with volunteers given how many people have experience riding the route) who would need to be more direct with getting people who flaunt the laws to stop their ways. If there are particular trouble areas where a lot of law-breaking is occurring, someone could be stationed there to yell at people that they’re ruining the ride for everyone.

With the right adjustments, this could continue to be an excellent ride.

[Jason B]

@rcannon100 115086 wrote:

Yeah, gotta say, these things are cool. Marymount U just had a 5K along a very similar route, and it was well supported by the community. I would love to see some way to support these type of events – which builds great community – and the interests of the neighbors who, ya know, need to get to the soccer game or home to dinner or to the political debate. Have to say, seeing the FB mob go by always made me smile

Agreed. This ride is definitely a community builder. When I would do the ride, my students on the baseball team would be looking for me as we went by the field {insert Rockwellian image here for effect} and once or twice kids would come out of their houses to cheer me on, which was easy for I would be at the end. When a few of the teachers started to wear the W-L jersey, we had a number of, “I think I saw you” and “My dad was riding right next to you guys.” I can’t tell you how many W-L alumni we ran into on the ride. I remember getting passed by one of my students on Powhattan, and that little punk said I should cut down on my smoking as he went by {insert graffiti image here for affect}. Almost, fell over laughing. That ride “was” one of those little feathers that made Arlington a cool town. When an out-of-town guest would come to visit, I would blah, blah, blah about monuments, but inevitably would also say, “Yeah, on Tuesday, practically the whole town meets at this bike store…zoom, zoom, zoom….and we all have beer and burritos at the end!” Honestly, that type of conversation is often reserved for New York, Seattle and San Francisco. We need to help clean it up and bring it back.

[bobco85]

An update on the Arlington Freshbikes Tuesday Night Rides: http://www.arlnow.com/2015/05/08/tuesday-night-rides-to-resume-in-june/ (as per usual, AVOID the comments section if you care for your sanity)

Long story short:

• Scott McAhren (ride organizer) submitted his application for a special event permit for the May 5 ride too late on April 22 (these permits typically take up to 90 days for approval)
• the May 5 ride was cancelled because of this
• permit hearing for future rides will be on May 19 and will include reps from Arlington parks dept, police, fire and rescue, and other counties
• rides are likely to start up again in June
• unknown whether the rides will be weekly or monthly

[Vicegrip]

@rcannon100 115138 wrote:

Well no. I live on the route. I can assure u the delay at military and Lee was not slight. Overwhelming local roads was prob part of problem. I got stuck a couple of times and of course thought it was great. But it is a disruption in a hood where traffic already rots.

I too live on the route. in fact I live inside the route as it goes 100% around my house.

@hozn 115147 wrote:

What marshalls? Do you mean the police? This is not a marshalled ride. The police escort fades out after the Sycamore/Williamsburg intersection, whereupon riders are on their own as far as expectations to obey traffic rules. (Again, my experience is that everyone waited at stop lights, people do roll stop signs — especially the one from Powhattan to Williamsburg, but there’s a very good line of sight to the left there.) The only thing that ever felt unsafe to me on this ride was the traffic (drivers clearly being deliberate in passing too close) and the deterioration of the roads (continuing to improve as they’re apparently repaving Military).

This is what I have also noted after riding this 10 times or so. On the return portion without police escort the riders 100% followed the lights and standard rules of the road.

@rcannon100 115175 wrote:

Recently Marymount University ran a 5K through the same neighborhood. The notice to the neighborhood was poor. During the 5K, people’s access to and from their own houses was cut off.

Other than noting that notice really needed to be better (actual notice to the door), the neighborhood community association seems to have come out in support of MU and the 5K. They are engaging MU on how to have the 5K come off better next time.

The one diff is that the MU 5K was on a weekend morning, while the Freshbikes ride is at the end of Rush Hour.

These interests need to be balanced, and if there is a way of doing it, we may find support in the community. I think the community supports these types of community based, neighborhood building activities. But yeah, impairing people’s access to and from their own homes isnt grand – and throwing traffic load into rush hour will cause consternation.

Agree. We should keep in mind that unlike 5K type runs with the TNR there is no road closure, no setup and take down, no litter of water cups or the like. A big wad of cyclists goes by with a couple of cops keeping things safe and after they are gone it was as if they were never there. Same as a funeral procession except most everyone is happy to be there and the ride leader ain’t dead.

the simple fact that this ride has become big is not a reason to stop it it is a reason to make it work. As said a good healthy thing to do that many people have shown the desire to do. HS football games let out and cause traffic jams as do many other things we slab urbanites have grown to love. We simply accept and adjust for the pastimes and happy relaxation of others.

[rcannon100]

Er, pointing out one difference.

Yes, the local high school football game causes traffic. It is our kids causing traffic in our neighborhood. And usually NOT during rush hour, and it tends to be localized (if you dont want to be caught in it, dont go near). Usually the local HS football games are well attended by police who work to ensure that traffic still flows and can move around the game with minimal disruption. When locals see an event taking place, who they see is their neighbors.

The Fresh Bikes Rides is a group of cyclists NOT from the neighborhood imposing a burden on the neighborhood. When locals see an event taking place, who they see is strangers.

I think even the MU 5K got a bit of a pass because MU is part of this neighborhood and many people have an affinity for it. I think MU has done some good community outreach.

no road closure, no setup and take down

Well, yes. Lee Hwy is closed when the ride goes through. There may be no set up and no take down. But for all practical purpose, the intersection at Lee and Military is closed for traffic for X minutes while lazy asses like myself try to keep up with the ELITE riders. Police take control of the intersection. They traffic light will cycle through several times. But no traffic is allowed through. And again, this is during what is still fundamentally rush hour, when roads are at peak load.

We simply accept and adjust for the pastimes and happy relaxation of others.

Yeah, fundamentally this is right. I mean, in the best world – we do have the 5K (including 5Ks on the WOD that inconvenience cyclists), the football game, the bicycle ride et al. I think we just need to lose tribalism that because it is MY TRIBE that is causing the problem, it is infallible – and consider how burdens on the local community can be mitigated. Last year that ride DID get very large. Maybe at Lee and Military, the peloton gets to go through with police escort – but stragglers MUST wait for the light (I think I did the ride twice, I was a straggler, and the police were sitting there closing down Lee Hwy waiting for me to pass).

These type of things are cool. And yes, they are the type of community we want to be. And the same time, we do live in a community and our actions do impose a burden on others. Can we do it better and cause less burden? Is there something that makes this better?

PS: Is that your car we keep seeing at the tire place next to Java Shack? If not, then there is some poseur with the license plate “VICEGRIP”

[Jason B]

Whenever I did the ride, the place I always saw the most contention between cars and bicyclists was the weird little intersection of Williamsburg/Powhattan/Little Falls, by the CVS going up to do the first loop. Many play a little stutter-step game of ‘is-it-my-turn’ which inevitably always ends with one of the fiefdoms grumbling.

[dasgeh]

I live less than 2 blocks from 5 Points (Lee/Old Dominion & Quincy/Military). The traffic on that part of Lee is always cleared up by 6pm. However, starting at the Old Dominion peel off to George Mason, traffic sucks until about 720pm. Anyone with sense knows to drive another route around these times. The Tuesday night ride causing people to sit at 5 Points for 5 whole minutes is not the problem.
In our neighborhood, a bunch of families with toddlers would come out to see the ride off and back, because it was fun and we could hang out and chat.
Which reminds me, I need to write the County in support of bringing back the ride…

Also, Dirt’s comment was literally the first I’d ever heard of red light running on this ride. I think he has it confused with another ride or hasn’t been on it in a long time.

[hozn]

@dasgeh 115504 wrote:

Also, Dirt’s comment was literally the first I’d ever heard of red light running on this ride. I think he has it confused with another ride or hasn’t been on it in a long time.

Yeah, I agree; I don’t think I have ever seen anyone run a red light on this ride — maybe turning right on red (Kirby) without stopping, but everyone always watches carefully there (and there is a lane-size shoulder).

It would probably be safer if they split up the groups and did have a couple folks that could marshall the different groups, but I’m not sure the self-policing has really been a problem. The follow-up email from ride organizer suggesting that people not “ride so fast” was a little humorous; the people at the front of that ride aren’t the ones crashing.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 115532 wrote:

Yeah, I agree; I don’t think I have ever seen anyone run a red light on this ride — maybe turning right on red (Kirby) without stopping, but everyone always watches carefully there (and there is a lane-size shoulder).

It helps that there are relatively few lights on the route, but yeah, people on this ride are pretty good about stopping, particularly given the size of the ride. In fact, I look forward to hitting the light at Old Dominion/Williamsburg, which is incredibly long, since it makes for a de facto regroup point.

[Author]

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