Four Mile Run – stream habitat restoration and other work along the corridor

[peterw_diy]

@kwarkentien 115554 wrote:

Sounds like a colossal waste of money to me!

Seriously. If they want to raise Eco-awareness they should focus on the thousands of people who drive autos across the stream each day, not the hundreds of human-powered trail users who move alongside it. One can’t bike past the herons and fishermen wading in the sewage treatment outflow and fail to think about water quality. They’re targeting the wrong audience.

[PotomacCyclist]

@rcannon100 115560 wrote:

What in the world is the point???

Please reference other thread where you requested fix to said transition from asphalt to concrete and said request was magically fulfilled by little Tim-Kelley-Fairies

I thought the problem there was the uneven transition from one level to another, not the fact that there was concrete and asphalt. If a surface or trail is installed and maintained properly, then there’s no problem. If something is installed improperly, then there are problems. That’s the case, whether or not there is pigment in the concrete.

[PotomacCyclist]

@peterw_diy 115561 wrote:

Seriously. If they want to raise Eco-awareness they should focus on the thousands of people who drive autos across the stream each day, not the hundreds of human-powered trail users who move alongside it. One can’t bike past the herons and fishermen wading in the sewage treatment outflow and fail to think about water quality. They’re targeting the wrong audience.

It would be more difficult to target the drivers while they are driving. If the art or display is too distracting, then it could be a safety issue. If it’s not noticeable, then there’s no point.

[rcannon100]

@PotomacCyclist 115564 wrote:

I thought the problem there was the uneven transition from one level to another, not the fact that there was concrete and asphalt. If a surface or trail is installed and maintained properly, then there’s no problem. If something is installed improperly, then there are problems. That’s the case, whether or not there is pigment in the concrete.

Asphalt is soft and sags. Concrete is concrete. What happened at the transitions in the asphalt sagged and adjusted, where the concrete did not. The transition between the two became a horizontal pot hole.

If a surface or trail is installed and maintained properly

There, sir, lies the rub. So one question is what tolerates poor maintenance best. One answer is mixing asphalt with concrete does not tolerate poor maintenance very well.

[KLizotte]

@rcannon100 115566 wrote:

Asphalt is soft and sags. Concrete is concrete. What happened at the transitions in the asphalt sagged and adjusted, where the concrete did not. The transition between the two became a horizontal pot hole.

There, sir, lies the rub. So one question is what tolerates poor maintenance best. One answer is mixing asphalt with concrete does not tolerate poor maintenance very well.

Good points about the proposed blue concrete design. It is doubtful this has been brought to the attention of the project’s approvers.

[dbb]

@rcannon100 115566 wrote:

Asphalt is soft and sags. Concrete is concrete. What happened at the transitions in the asphalt sagged and adjusted, where the concrete did not.

At the risk of being pedantic, you are referring to asphaltic cement concrete and Portland cement concrete. One uses black goo and the other grey powder as the cement (those are technical terms – I’m an engineer).

Asphalt can only sag if it has some place to sag into. The issue is likely they didn’t compact the base materials as well under the asphalt as they did at the concrete. That said, looking for opportunities to create maintenance problems is probably not the finest strategy.

[rcannon100]

@dbb 115570 wrote:

At the risk of being pedantic, you are referring to asphaltic cement concrete and Portland cement concrete. One uses black goo and the other grey powder as the cement (those are technical terms – I’m an engineer).

[chris_s]

@dbb 115570 wrote:

That said, looking for opportunities to create maintenance problems is probably not the finest strategy.

Exactly, this dubious art project is creating 34 new points of potential failure along the trail. 34 new opportunities for water infiltration. 34 new opportunities for a plow to snag. 34 new opportunities for mismatched rates of settling.

[mstone]

@dbb 115570 wrote:

At the risk of being pedantic, you are referring to asphaltic cement concrete and Portland cement concrete. One uses black goo and the other grey powder as the cement (those are technical terms – I’m an engineer).

Asphalt can only sag if it has some place to sag into. The issue is likely they didn’t compact the base materials as well under the asphalt as they did at the concrete. That said, looking for opportunities to create maintenance problems is probably not the finest strategy.

Well, the black stuff tends to sag and droop. The white stuff tends to move as a giant block (or a small number of broken up pieces of a giant block). Even on the same base they’ll tend to degrade differently. You can take it as a given that a trail does not have an adequate base because it’s designed for people weights and then has heavy trucks run on it.

[baiskeli]

@peterw_diy 115561 wrote:

Seriously. If they want to raise Eco-awareness they should focus on the thousands of people who drive autos across the stream each day, not the hundreds of human-powered trail users who move alongside it. One can’t bike past the herons and fishermen wading in the sewage treatment outflow and fail to think about water quality. They’re targeting the wrong audience.

I agree that they need to reach the people in the metal boxes, but I don’t think everyone who uses the trail necessarily understands the issues. They may appreciate the need for water quality, but not everyone understands how what they do on land affects it. I think it’s a good place to start. On the other hand, I’m not sure a bunch of blue blocks in the trail helps educate anyone about it, unless there’s at least some kind of interpretation.

[PotomacCyclist]

To be honest, I don’t find the existing asphalt-only trail to be that smooth right now. If I rode too quickly on that stretch of the trail on a bike with skinny tires, I could see myself getting knocked over after hitting some of those bumps. I guess it’s not good to introduce more complexity into the system, but maintenance and proper installation are key, whether or not there is one surface type or two. I haven’t ridden on FMR Trail this year, but in the past, I’ve noticed that it’s quite a bumpy ride, at least on the section east of Mt. Vernon Ave. I ride more slowly there so the bumps aren’t a big problem for me. But if I weren’t paying attention and I picked up a little too much speed on a non-CaBi bike, it could be a problem. It would be the same thing if there were similar issues with the blue concrete panels. At least I would be able to see those better than I can see some of the existing asphalt bumps.

[Powerful Pete]

Well, nice to see that the sagging bits have now been repaired and are… more like speed bumps. No worries, they are better than they were and can still be bunny-hopped, so all is well. Nice to see that the maintenance people were responsive.

[CaseyKane50]

@Bike-Ped Manager 115477 wrote:

There is a lot happening related to the Four Mile Run stream corridor these days!

Four Mile Run Restoration Project
The Four Mile Run restoration project is getting underway, with Alexandria beginning construction work on Site 3, the wetlands area. Alexandria’s contractors will remove the tree canopy that has grown on the highly degraded artificial fill in the wetland and the non-native forest floor. Once cleared, the City will replant using only native low and high marsh wetland plants and the area will be restored as a functioning wetland. The adjacent acres of naturally existing (remnant) forested wetlands within the project area will be preserved. Arlington’s portion of the restoration project, Sites 1 and 2, will go out to bid shortly and should get under construction later this year. Learn more about the restoration project: http://novaregion.org/DocumentCenter/View/10805

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10060[/ATTACH]
Progress on the wetlands restoration. (Photo taken from the Arlington side of Four Mile Run)

[KLizotte]

Is the trail that runs along the southern side of the waterway open yet? The trail that runs next to My Organic Market?

[CaseyKane50]

@KLizotte 127688 wrote:

Is the trail that runs along the southern side of the waterway open yet? The trail that runs next to My Organic Market?

No, the detour is still in place. I seem to recall that the detour was to last for about 10 months.

[Author]

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