Falls Church – Leesburg Pike incident involving curb cut

[KLizotte]

All driveways and even ramps onto sidewalks always seem to have a “lip”. I have to go over one every time I enter my apartment building’s driveway and find it infuriating. Can the civil engineers among us explain why they exist? Are they really necessary? Why can’t they just smooth out the concrete and/or asphalt so that the transition is smooth?

And for the record, I think Arlington County should smooth out the “lip” at the entrance to the Crystal City tunnel from Crystal Drive. It is dangerous.

[Emm]

@elbows 147489 wrote:

Relaying some info on an event involving the spouse of a coworker.

On Sunday, 10/9, a cyclist was attempting to enter the sidewalk from the road to cut through Rite Aid and minimize travel on Route 7. This is the location (in front of the party supplies store, near the wooden bridge). The curb cut (?) is about an inch or so. He did not turn sharply enough, caught his wheel while being clipped in, and went down, breaking his right arm such that surgery and hospitalization were required. Passersby provided assistance.

Curb cuts seems to be a common place for falls and injuries–I’ve had my share of near misses and falls on them, and I see people down every few months at a couple others on my commute. They are slippery, and those lips can be killer if you hit it just a little bit off, especially if you’re going at an angle…I now am VERY cautious by them and go pretty slow when going on and off curb cuts.

I hope your coworkers spouse heals soon. I’m glad someone stopped to help him!

[Tania]

Being able to pick up and control your front end is a great skill to have – especially around curb cuts like this. I never just roll over them anymore – if it looks like it’s got any height, I lift the front wheel. It makes for a much smoother transition.

[KLizotte]

@Tania 147511 wrote:

Being able to pick up and control your front end is a great skill to have – especially around curb cuts like this. I never just roll over them anymore – if it looks like it’s got any height, I lift the front wheel. It makes for a much smoother transition.

I need to learn that trick.

[consularrider]

@Tania 147511 wrote:

Being able to pick up and control your front end is a great skill to have – especially around curb cuts like this. I never just roll over them anymore – if it looks like it’s got any height, I lift the front wheel. It makes for a much smoother transition.

Can you bunny hop this? :p

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12585[/ATTACH]

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

@KLizotte 147501 wrote:

All driveways and even ramps onto sidewalks always seem to have a “lip”. I have to go over one every time I enter my apartment building’s driveway and find it infuriating. Can the civil engineers among us explain why they exist? Are they really necessary? Why can’t they just smooth out the concrete and/or asphalt so that the transition is smooth?

And for the record, I think Arlington County should smooth out the “lip” at the entrance to the Crystal City tunnel from Crystal Drive. It is dangerous.

My guess is that if the curb cut isn’t prefabricated it is usually poured and positioned prior to the final finishing of the road surface it joins, and if the grade and camber of the final road surface don’t happen to meet up perfectly with the other stuff there’s not much that can be done at that point. Same problem with manholes etc.

[Judd]

@KLizotte 147515 wrote:

I need to learn that trick.

Here’s a picture I of Tania’s curb technique the time that I rode with her:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[elbows]

I suspect many would disagree with me, but I think some people should reconsider their use of clips. I personally know of several recent broken bones that would not have happened IMHO had the person not been clipped in. Everyone needs to make their own risk / reward tradeoff (and I know some people feel that there is no impediment to them from being clipped in). As for myself, I only clip in on a long ride or a race (assuming more to come on that front) and not when riding around town.

[Steve O]

@elbows 147552 wrote:

I suspect many would disagree with me, but I think some people should reconsider their use of clips. I personally know of several recent broken bones that would not have happened IMHO had the person not been clipped in. Everyone needs to make their own risk / reward tradeoff (and I know some people feel that there is no impediment to them from being clipped in).

Count me as one who disagrees. I feel much more comfortable and feel like I have more control of my bike while clipped in. I have never met anyone who switched to clipless, got used to it, and then went back.
I also think it’s rare that putting one’s foot down will save them, except perhaps at very low speeds. You will still crash; you’ll just injure something different. I can easily imagine this same crash occurring, but instead of breaking his arm, he would have (maybe) put his foot down, gotten tangled with his bike, twisted his knee and cracked a rib on the handlebars, tearing the knee’s cartilage and also requiring surgery. Your foot does not save you.

[KLizotte]

I keep my SPD-M pedals at the lightest setting possible so clipping out is as easy as a regular pedal; I don’t even think about it. I’ve had some bad crashes while clipped in and my feet always popped automatically without injury. That’s not to say there isn’t a risk but compared to other crap that may go bad, they are the least of my worries.

That said, I’ve seen some experienced riders unclipping long before they have to which makes me think that they aren’t 100% comfortable with them or else have the tension too tight. Some folks have a hard time clipping in too. Seems best to only use a system that feels 100% comfortable.

[DrP]

I remain unattached to my pedals because I feel much more safe, especially after seeing the problems a friend has regularly had (are neither of us completely coordinated? Perhaps not…). So I fully agree with suggestion of not attaching in the potentially crazier (i.e., more potential for interactions) locations.

Examples:

1. Pedestrians suddenly changing their mind as to where on the trail they wished to be after I rang my bell (well before hand) and I needed to change direction to go off trail quickly to not hit them. I ended up stopping short and going mostly over the handle bars, but able to land better than if a bicycle were attached to my feet. I only had minor bruises. I was moving at my regular cycling pace (probably 12-15 mph) prior to needing to stop.

2. Crazy Ivan who was suddenly in my lane, despite my bell ringing (head phones do that). I grabbed my brakes hard and my feet slipped off the pedal since they were not attached and helped me stop by acting like brakes. I did hit the runner, but at that point at a very low speed and was mostly like a bit of a shove. Had I been attached to my pedals, I would not have stopped as quickly and likely would have hit the jogger hard and with my head or something as we came to a stop yards later. Again, traveling at my typical pace.

3. Two falls on compress snow this past winter (the 1-2inches of snow two days before the blizzard). In these cases I was slower than usual due to the snow, but not drastically. Bike slipped to the side and I hit the ground. Were I attached (and these were sudden falls), I likely would have twisted or broken something, especially on the first fall since I had issues untangling myself as it was. I only had a couple of bruises.

4. Friend grabs brakes for some reason (cannot recall, likely due to shock of accident/possible concussion) and goes partially over the handle bars, but not entirely due to being attached to the pedals (no time to do anything) and then is mangled in the bike. Broken collar bone and loads of bruising.

5. Friend has slid on Trollheim and other slippery wooden bridges and landed still attached. Knowing the locations, the speeds were slower than typical, but bruises and scrapes in all cases. Similarly injured when accidentally going off the side of a trail avoiding cyclists from the other direction or just falling from a near standstill. I have managed to get a foot down and not fall in all my similar wobbly cases, to date.

[huskerdont]

I feel fine clipped in in the city with mountain/SPD pedals. I will admit to unclipping while mountain biking when there’s a log in front of me that I’m not sure I’m going to make it over, so can understand why one would want to be unclipped in certain situations. SPDs seem pretty easy to me at this point (although there were some embarrassing sideways tonks at lights while I was learning), but road pedals still feel iffy to me downtown. Unclipping is fine; it’s clipping in. If I don’t hit it right, my foot will slip right off the pedal. Maybe it’s just me and no one else has this problem? I was never a road racer so learned to use road cleats very late.

[Steve O]

Similar to helmet use, I would never, ever discourage someone from wearing their helmet if that makes them feel safer. If someone feels safer not clipped in, then, by all means, don’t clip in. And vice versa.
I mildly disagree with elbows contention that some people who are clipped in should reconsider. I, on the other hand, trust people to have already made this decision based on their own skills, comfort and circumstances.

DrP listed some examples. Here’s my counter-example:
Two years ago I went down at 22mph on Maine Ave. on my way to a Nats game due to the highly irregular surface caused by all the construction. I slid a long ways leaving a thin layer of skin along the road (pic – warning: gory).
If I had not been clipped in, then most certainly I would have thrown my foot out as I started to go down, which would have caused me to flip forward, throwing my arms out to protect me, etc. Unquestionably I would have ended up with broken this or that or torn joint stuff and all sorts of orthopedic injuries–some possibly permanent. As it was, just road rash, which healed, as usual, in a few weeks. In fact, the outcome of this crash was probably the absolute best case possible, partially due to my being clipped in.

There is no way to hold controlled experiments to determine which crash is worse (No, I’m not going to go back to Maine Avenue and do it again unclipped). And there’s no way of knowing how many crashes never occur at all because someone clipped in was able to bunny hop an obstacle or otherwise control their bike in ways impossible otherwise. Shoot, I’ve known people who put a foot down in an attempt to control their bike and the act of doing that has made them crash.

So go ahead and ride however makes you most comfortable, but don’t make the assertion that riding unclipped (or clipped) is somehow safer.

[Judd]

@huskerdont 147614 wrote:

I feel fine clipped in in the city with mountain/SPD pedals. I will admit to unclipping while mountain biking when there’s a log in front of me that I’m not sure I’m going to make it over, so can understand why one would want to be unclipped in certain situations. SPDs seem pretty easy to me at this point (although there were some embarrassing sideways tonks at lights while I was learning), but road pedals still feel iffy to me downtown. Unclipping is fine; it’s clipping in. If I don’t hit it right, my foot will slip right off the pedal. Maybe it’s just me and no one else has this problem? I was never a road racer so learned to use road cleats very late.

It’s not just you. I see a ton of people with road pedals fumbling through intersections at 3 mph trying to clip in. Particularly annoying if they have just shoaled me. My mountain spd pedals are like butter and end up clipping out at the tail end of falls. The one time I wish I didn’t have them on was when I was hopping a curb and didn’t hop enough. Dead stop but I managed to clip out and get a foot down as I started to timber.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MFC]

@huskerdont 147614 wrote:

I feel fine clipped in in the city with mountain/SPD pedals. I will admit to unclipping while mountain biking when there’s a log in front of me that I’m not sure I’m going to make it over, so can understand why one would want to be unclipped in certain situations. SPDs seem pretty easy to me at this point (although there were some embarrassing sideways tonks at lights while I was learning), but road pedals still feel iffy to me downtown. Unclipping is fine; it’s clipping in. If I don’t hit it right, my foot will slip right off the pedal. Maybe it’s just me and no one else has this problem? I was never a road racer so learned to use road cleats very late.

I use double-sided mtn-bike pedals on my road bike rather than single-sided road pedals to avoid fumbling or missed clips when starting up in traffic. At least that way I will have flat platform to put my shoe on it I mis-clip.

[Author]

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