Falls Church Enforcement on the W&OD

[mstone]

Yes, the “stop required by law” is invalid (though if you see a cop it’s easier to pretend than deal with the hassle).

Ask yourself a simple question: why did the state start painting lines on the road like that? Was it because there was concern that pedestrians would get confused and start milling about in the middle of the road, unable to find the other side? Or, perhaps, are the lines there to tell autos to do something? If the latter, what is it that we would expect autos to do when there are lines across the road and a pedestrian is trying to cross?

Crosswalks really aren’t that hard, and it’s depressing to anyone concerned about the future of the American experiment that we’ve managed to screw it up. By posting idiotic and illegal signs like “stop” or “cars have the right of way” we’ve managed to confuse people to the point that it’s now statistically safer to cross at an unmarked crosswalk than an unsignalized marked crosswalk. Because we don’t want cars to ever slow down or exercise caution, we have come to a point where we have to install tens of thousands of dollars worth of traffic control devices if we want to let people cross the street safely. People complain that it’s because the rules aren’t clear; nonsense–people just don’t want to slow down their cars. Ironically, my experience suggests that the same people who don’t want to slow down (and force us into signalizing) are the ones who complain about high taxes and insufficient money for road maintenance.

Anyway, if there’s a crosswalk you have a right to cross which is superior to any car’s right to keep going. If the people in charge of the infrastructure don’t want that to be true in a particular location, they can remove the crosswalk. If they take another option like putting up an illegal sign, they are confused and we should all protest them putting us in danger and confusing the very simple concept of the crosswalk.

None of this has anything to do with how you actually cross in practice, because there are a lot of nut jobs driving cars and almost no enforcement to keep them in check.

[americancyclo]

@Dirt 33373 wrote:

I have added a copy of the code related to crosswalks to the stuff that I carry with me on my commutes. Thanks for the link, FFX_Hinterlands

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924

The Falls Church City Code has specific language about bicycle and stop signs, which is not aligned, but not exactly contradictory with the VA state code. I am not able to weigh in which takes precedence in this case, but thought you should all be aware that FC Code states the following:

Sec. 26-109. – Riding and parking regulations.

Every person riding a bicycle upon a bikeway, sidewalk, street, highway or roadway has all the rights and is subject to all the duties applicable to the driver of a motor vehicle, except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application. Additionally, every such person shall comply with the following:

…(3)
Stop signs. All persons operating a bicycle shall stop at all stop signs.

The above text was taken from the following website which is directed to from the official falls church city website.
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=14329&stateId=46&stateName=Virginia

[JorgeGortex]

Once again, another interesting topic of discussion. I’d like to know, Dirt, what you carry with you on your rides in terms of printed regs? What do others carry with them to help when involved with discussions with police, motorists, other cyclists etc. And maybe not just codes, but other things too. ICE info? Legal rights (I carry legal rights of photographers in every camera bag…)? Etc?

I was never a boy scout, but I like to be prepared.

Gortex

[baiskeli]

You have a right to cross if you’ve already started to cross, but cars are not obligated to stop or even slow down if you are waiting to begin to cross.

[Dirt]

@JorgeGortex 33913 wrote:

Once again, another interesting topic of discussion. I’d like to know, Dirt, what you carry with you on your rides in terms of printed regs? What do others carry with them to help when involved with discussions with police, motorists, other cyclists etc. And maybe not just codes, but other things too. ICE info? Legal rights (I carry legal rights of photographers in every camera bag…)? Etc?

I was never a boy scout, but I like to be prepared.

Gortex

I now have a page of the Virginia code referenced earlier in this conversation on one side and the Falls Church reference that americancyclo just quoted on the other. That one page fits in the little case where I keep my cell phones.

[KLizotte]

Well, irrespective of whether the stop signs on trails are legally enforceable I think they do play a good safety role by informing cyclists that a road is there, period.

Let’s face it, cyclists ride when it’s dark, may not know the area, ride too fast, may be zoned out, etc. I can see how someone might inadvertently blow through an intersection without the visual aid of a sign especially if there is a blind curve or lots of vegetation hiding the road.

[Dirt]

@KLizotte 33918 wrote:

Well, irrespective of whether the stop signs on trails are legally enforceable I think they do play a good safety role by informing cyclists that a road is there, period.

Let’s face it, cyclists ride when it’s dark, may not know the area, ride too fast, may be zoned out, etc. I can see how someone might inadvertently blow through an intersection without the visual aid of a sign especially if there is a blind curve or lots of vegetation hiding the road.

Agreed. I like the paint on the trails warning of upcoming crossings.

I actually do stop at these too… I don’t always do the full 3-second stop, but I at least make sure that I’m crossing safely and am close enough to a full stop that a full stop is very easily possible if something unexpected happens.

I think it is worth noting that my source of irritation has nothing to do with complying with stop signs. I generally think that a lot of the stop signs are a very good idea and should at LEAST be given a stop of the Idaho variety. We should all be capable of coming to a stop if something unexpected happens…. even if it is early morning and there’s no-one around.

After all, how can I expect cars to obey the law if I’m not willing to follow the posted signs on my own trail???

I bristle at condescending, sarcastic and unprofessional comments that I’ve heard and had directed at me a) for infractions that were never made; or 2) based upon assumptions made because of appearances.

When it comes right down to it, I like law enforcement and I think the US would be a better place to ride bicycles if traffic laws were more strictly and evenly enforced for cars, pedestrians AND bicycles.

Love,

Dirt.

[mstone]

Alternatively, they could use an appropriate, explanatory sign.

[Dirt]

@mstone 33924 wrote:

Alternatively, they could use an appropriate, explanatory sign.

Or Cyclocross barriers!

Yes. Now I know I’m getting silly.

[baiskeli]

@mstone 33924 wrote:

Alternatively, they could use an appropriate, explanatory sign.

What do you suggest?

[KelOnWheels]

@Dirt 33916 wrote:

I now have a page of the Virginia code referenced earlier in this conversation on one side and the Falls Church reference that americancyclo just quoted on the other. That one page fits in the little case where I keep my cell phones.

Or you could just wear the Uniform Vehicle Code on your sleeve…

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1876[/ATTACH]

[Dirt]

@KelOnWheels 33929 wrote:

Or you could just wear the Uniform Vehicle Code on your sleeve…

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1876[/ATTACH]

That thing is awesome. It will be mine!!!

[pfunkallstar]

Cylocross barriers make my shins ache.

[mstone]

@baiskeli 33927 wrote:

What do you suggest?

Something that says “high speed cross traffic, poor enforcement”

[jabberwocky]

I’m getting confused. Are people actually arguing that the stop signs on the W&OD have no legal weight and can be ignored? Because, uh, stopping at those roads seems like a really good idea to me.

[Author]

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