Ebike commute from Reston to DC

[Lt. Dan]

@Tim Kelley 148458 wrote:

The first one on your list? From like two weeks ago?

https://www.strava.com/segments/10185260

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12682[/ATTACH]

So fast! So much wattage! Most speedy!!!

[bentbike33]

@EasyRider 148471 wrote:

I’m just making the case that with more power, speed, weight, and effortless use — comes more personal responsibility. Just testing the waters to see who else thinks so.

I agree, but it applies as well when these are achieved via natural means.

[hozn]

@dasgeh 148447 wrote:

I imagine this is observation bias — you probably have, but haven’t looked close enough at the bike to see if it’s an ebike (and admit it, you are usually going faster than most traffic, so you’d have to pause and look). And I don’t that’s true, because I think you’ve passed me. I get passed by about half the number of people I pass. I consider that “the speed of traffic”

I think the bigger bias here is that I’m riding westward (not toward the city) so I would assume ebike riders are more likely to open the throttle out here. Almost all the ebikes I encounter are coming the opposite direction, so that was the basis for my observation. I have been passed by a number of ebikes; I’ve never to my knowledge passed an ebike (I always look at peoples bikes when I pass, of course!). Perhaps I have ridden by you once (?), though our commutes don’t go in the same direction. Anyway, this wasn’t really intended to be a criticism, since I also tend to ride faster than average on the trails. The idea of the typical ebike rider just cruising along at the speed of surrounding traffic just doesn’t fit with what I have observed. I assume that people buy ebikes because they’d like to go faster (and also maybe arrive not sweaty). I don’t begrudge that, but I also think it’s a difference.

@dasgeh 148447 wrote:

So people that are already strong should not be allowed to ride fast when they start riding? You may want to talk to triathletes who come from running/swimming…

I think the reputation triathletes have earned themselves in cycling circles (and maybe especially on the narrow MVT!) pretty much proves the point

@dasgeh 148447 wrote:

As has been pointed out, the motor and battery add about 30lbs to a bike.

That’s fair. Perhaps weight is really a non-issue here — for normal/non-Elf bikes.

So if speeds are governed at 20-30mph and weight and size are not exponentially greater than a regular bicycle, then it should be allowed on the trail? Would this include gas-powered vehicles [assuming they could meet those same criteria]?

@dasgeh 148450 wrote:

The original QOM point was to say that I’m riding fast. My point is that I get passed by plenty of people (men and women, not everyone is on Strava!), and using just the QOM data to say that I’m the fastest ignores the men and makes it seem like there’s an issue being the fastest woman.

I think that’s precisely the point. QOM does ignore men by definition: men don’t get QOMs and can’t lose KOMs to woman, just as a woman can’t lose QOMs to a man. So there’d be no Strava-related reason for any man to be upset about a woman riding faster than them. I would assume that there are many (most?) women who would be proud of their hard-earned QOM achievements on Strava, though. (But I also see you corrected your ride there, so obviously you agree.)

I think fundamentally most here agree that ebikes should have a place in cycling infrastructure. Probably the better people to ask about their impact in mixed-use paths would be pedestrians … and horse riders. I think there’s general agreement that ebikes can’t be treated like bicycles for the purposes of sport (races/competitions). But perhaps less agreement on whether an ebike is really any more of a trail hazard than any other bicycle. I’m sure in the right hands (e.g. maybe MikeS, the OP!), it is far safer trail participant than many cyclists, but I do think that more than doubling your average rider’s power output definitely makes it a lot easier to be a trail hazard. Hopefully that behavior won’t become more ubiquitous as the prices of ebikes continue to fall and their popularity increase.

[dasgeh]

@Tim Kelley 148458 wrote:

The first one on your list? From like two weeks ago?

https://www.strava.com/segments/10185260

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12682[/ATTACH]

You know what’s funny – that’s from a car. I forgot to turn off my phone when going multimodal to get a my kid’s bday dinner. Will fix when I get a chance.

[dasgeh]

I just checked Strava. Not there. Maybe I’ll get it in the next update.

[Subby]

I could see using e-assist on the flats because those are boring and lame.

[sjclaeys]

@americancyclo 148438 wrote:

If you remove the “e-” prefix and change the location, you sounds like the drivers

Your remark seems to ignore the context of my comment. My comment was in response to the assertion that, based on a sample size of one instance, operating an e-bike automatically makes one a more courteous MUP user. Seeing that this is analogous to a motorist alleging that all cyclists are scofflaws based on observing the behavior of one cyclist, I offered that there were observations by myself and others that e-bike users are not always courteous. Thus, making a generalization based on a sample size of one is not very logical thinking. My point ultimately is that it is the bicycle rider or the e-bike operator who determines if they behave in a courteous and safe manner, not the type of vehicle on which they are astride. If you think that this makes me sound like a “driver”, then I’d be interested to know why.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@dasgeh 148481 wrote:

You know what’s funny – that’s from a car.

Ewww

[jnva]

@lordofthemark 148420 wrote:

Trails on the other hand, go places roads don’t go. Or go there more directly (especially in places like NoVa where well developed street grids are lacking). And they provide an experience of nature that is completely different. Ergo, there is a reason why an ebiker would want to ride on them.

Bingo! I have no desire to ride my ebike on the WOD for any other reason.

[americancyclo]

@sjclaeys 148491 wrote:

Your remark seems to ignore the context of my comment. My comment was in response to the assertion that, based on a sample size of one instance, operating an e-bike automatically makes one a more courteous MUP user. Seeing that this is analogous to a motorist alleging that all cyclists are scofflaws based on observing the behavior of one cyclist, I offered that there were observations by myself and others that e-bike users are not always courteous. Thus, making a generalization based on a sample size of one is not very logical thinking. My point ultimately is that it is the bicycle rider or the e-bike operator who determines if they behave in a courteous and safe manner, not the type of vehicle on which they are astride. If you think that this makes me sound like a “driver”, then I’d be interested to know why.

It’s still a sample size of one (you) that has been passed many times by ebikes. “Others on the forum” are more likely to be vocal about times they have been offended or angered at ebikes instead of talking about all the well behaved ebikers or ones that they didn’t even notice were ebikes. This parallels drivers getting riled up by the one or two scofflaw cyclists, although to your point, most drivers can’t make the mental leap to assigning action to the individual instead of the mode of transport, which is where your thinking diverges.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 148482 wrote:

I just checked Strava. Not there. Maybe I’ll get it in the next update.

That’s cuz I flagged it and it disappeared from the leaderboard. There are others.

[Vicegrip]

@hozn 148478 wrote:

…….but I do think that more than doubling your average rider’s power output definitely makes it a lot easier to be a trail hazard. Hopefully that behavior won’t become more ubiquitous as the prices of ebikes continue to fall and their popularity increase.

This is my concern. I am old and grumpy and never, ever, underestimate the ability for humans to muck up a good thing. When to goes from some to many then the good riders go from most to many at best. It is not the good folks that mess up a good thing it is the dingbats, uninformed and the intentionally selfish that muck up public activity. I think E-bikes simply have more potential to be abused in unsafe ways than H-bikes. I don’t think they need to be banned unless there is a clear problem that can’t be addressed otherwise.

I rolled up onto the back of an E-bike at the 123 crossing going East one afternoon. We crossed and the rider was sitting bolt upright luffing the pedals while zinging along. (riding with care) I was a good 2 bike lengths behind him enjoying the big hole in the air he was making as we motored along at 20 mph or so. At Cedar we again stopped and after we crossed he slowed down and asked how it was that was keeping up with him as he has a 400 watt motor. I let him know that 400 at the motor is a bit less at the ground, he was in a rather sail like position and he was making a big hole in the air wall for me to sit in. We rode side by side to Gallows and my 280W or so = his full power. Unlike some of the strong riders here I don’t have 60 min of 280w to burn on my commute rides.

I say we hire E-bikes and riders to run back and forth on the long flats pulling H-bike trains along.

[sjclaeys]

@americancyclo 148500 wrote:

It’s still a sample size of one (you) that has been passed many times by ebikes. “Others on the forum” are more likely to be vocal about times they have been offended or angered at ebikes instead of talking about all the well behaved ebikers or ones that they didn’t even notice were ebikes. This parallels drivers getting riled up by the one or two scofflaw cyclists, although to your point, most drivers can’t make the mental leap to assigning action to the individual instead of the mode of transport, which is where your thinking diverges.

So you agree with the assertion that started this conversation that the observation of one instance is sufficient to establish that operating an e-bike makes one a more courteous MUP user?

[mstone]

@dasgeh 148447 wrote:

So people that are already strong should not be allowed to ride fast when they start riding? You may want to talk to triathletes who come from running/swimming…[/quote]

Well that part is totally true. Have you ever seen the crazy crashes at tri races? Woo-eee!

[hozn]

has been passed many times by ebikes. “Others on the forum” are more likely to be vocal about times they have been offended or angered at ebikes instead of talking about all the well behaved ebikers or ones that they didn’t even notice were ebikes.

You’re probably right. I know dasgeh sets a high standard for trail etiquette. And the OP sounds quite conscientious. And the few times I have chatted with folks on e-bikes, they have been very nice and were well behaved on the trails. I have seen some jackhole behavior on e-bikes, but I don’t think the majority of e-bikes are being ridden by ill-behaved cyclists. Or particularly inexperienced cyclists, for that matter. The latter may be shifting as they get cheaper, we shall see.

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