Dock/Undock to reset 30 minute timer

[jopamora]

@dasgeh 58952 wrote:

Ah, this argument. The process that would be most efficient for all is for everyone to slow to a safe speed, and for the people in the disappearing lane to merge at the last second. Unfortunately, lots of people merge early, then get all righteous on the people that are using the available asphalt. [**Note: if those people are using the available asphalt at unsafe speeds, I agree they’re jerks**] Being efficient does not make me a jerk.

The zipper merge is bestest.

[dasgeh]

@KLizotte 58954 wrote:

through multiple renewals even when they are not in need of the books they have borrowed. In fact, some libraries do not let you renew if someone has put a hold on the item you have checked out. Perhaps CaBi could employ the same rule?

If I saw someone waiting for a bike at a docking station I would not dock/undock to save a few bucks. That’s like cutting in line if you ask me.

I like the library analogy, though the person using the CaBi is actually in need of the bike to get to their destination. And yes, CaBi could institute that rule (as we’ve said — they’d just put a waiting period on to daisy chain), but they haven’t. In fact, they seem to advertise the daisy-chaining ability.

And with the cutting in line – it’s really not, unless you’re saying that not only would you not daisy chain, but that you’d give up the bike. I.e. ride over to the station A, where you intend to dock/undock so you can get to station B, then when you see someone at station A say “whoops, here you go” and wait. Most people seem to say they’d just pay the extra $$.

If I were waiting, I wouldn’t want someone to pay more just because I was there waiting — either way I wait.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@dasgeh 58952 wrote:

Ah, this argument. The process that would be most efficient for all is for everyone to slow to a safe speed, and for the people in the disappearing lane to merge at the last second. Unfortunately, lots of people merge early, then get all righteous on the people that are using the available asphalt. [**Note: if those people are using the available asphalt at unsafe speeds, I agree they’re jerks**] Being efficient does not make me a jerk.

Obviously the best thing is for everyone to merge exactly where I merged — neither earlier like idiots or later like jerks!

[KLizotte]

@dasgeh 58948 wrote:

But you haven’t taken “their ride from them”. It was never their ride. You’ve got the bike. The only thing that changes if you pull up to a station to daisy chain v. continuing on is that you get charged. Either way, waiting guy is left waiting.

If you pulled up to the waiting guy and said “I’m not done with my ride. I can either daisy-chain or pay an extra $1.50. Which would you prefer?” Wouldn’t he be the jerk if he asked you to eat the $1.50?

I do think the polite this is to say something to the effect of “sorry, man, I’m just daisy-chaining”

I disagree because everyone is entitled to a free 30 minutes after that you should be paying for the extra time, at least when someone is waiting. *It’s no longer your bike when you redock.* It is back in the “system” and the only reason you got to use it again is because you cut in line (a.k.a. were standing right next to the bike). Taken to the extreme, what you are saying is that it would be ok for someone who lives next to a docking station to keep the bike in his or her backyard and re-dock every 30 minutes so as to always have a bike on hand for his or her own personal use. Just because something is legal, doesn’t make it morally right.

[Steve]

Totally agree with KLizotte. Daisy-chaining doesn’t really exist. You can’t just ride by a docking station and get 30 more minutes. What you do is check the bike back in, and then check it out. When you check a bike in, you get in line. Often, there isn’t a line because there are ample bikes, but if there is a line, then you get in it.

[Tim Kelley]

@dasgeh 58948 wrote:

I do think the polite this is to say something to the effect of “sorry, man, I’m just daisy-chaining”

Yeah, that’s what I would probably do if I pulled up and then realized someone was waiting. And I’d sheepishly feel bad about it.

[dasgeh]

@KLizotte 58961 wrote:

I disagree because everyone is entitled to a free 30 minutes after that you should be paying for the extra time, at least when someone is waiting. *It’s no longer your bike when you redock.* It is back in the “system” and the only reason you got to use it again is because you cut in line (a.k.a. were standing right next to the bike). Taken to the extreme, what you are saying is that it would be ok for someone who lives next to a docking station to keep the bike in his or her backyard and re-dock every 30 minutes so as to always have a bike on hand for his or her own personal use. Just because something is legal, doesn’t make it morally right.

But CaBi explains that you can daisy-chain for longer rides (I haven’t researched this one, just going on rcannon’s statements and a vague recollection of that explanation from CaBi people back in the day). I wouldn’t agree that your example is an extreme of this line of argument because the person with the bike in the yard isn’t riding it.

My understanding of the rules is that daisy-chaining is a-ok. Therefore, I don’t think someone is a jerk for following the rules. For example, I could imagine needing to get across town, somewhere that takes me just at 30 min to get to. To be safe, I then alter my route to take me by another station so I can daisy chain. I check to see if there are open docks, but I can’t check to see if there are waiting people. Should I then be punished for that?

It’s one thing to say you disagree with a rule. It’s another to say that someone is a jerk for following the rule you disagree with. This isn’t really morals or laws.

[KLizotte]

@dasgeh 58964 wrote:

It’s one thing to say you disagree with a rule. It’s another to say that someone is a jerk for following the rule you disagree with. This isn’t really morals or laws.

It’s called civility.

There is no law dictating that people have to give up their seats on metro or buses for pregnant women or people walking with crutches but I think we can all agree that it is a nice thing to do.

[Steve]

A little bit of a side point, I noticed that the Paris Velib has two year long subscription choices, one for 30 minutes free and one for 45. I wonder if CaBi will ever do the same. It seems like it’d be a hit, especially as CaBi expands to slightly farther reaching locations. Even just from somewhere like Ballston, those extra 15 minutes would increase the number of CaBi stations that I could reach by quite a bit. For $10 more a year or so, I think most would go for the premium subscription.

[83b]

I believe that a reasonable case can be advanced for every position advocated in this thread, except:

@rcannon100 58930 wrote:

WMATA doesnt get to blame riders when WMATA fails.

That’s crazy, of course they do!

[ShawnoftheDread]

It’s true that CaBi does advertise the ability to “daisy-chain,” but as far as I know they are silent as to whether you should get in line (if there is one) when you do so. It just seems rude to dock a bike and then take it again when someone is waiting.

And if CaBi were to implement a short waiting time for taking a bike back out, that might just make conflict more likely without solving the problem — instead of leaving right away, a would-be daisy-chainer would sit on the bike and wait, making it more likely for any waiters to call him on it.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@83(b) 58972 wrote:

I believe that a reasonable case can be advanced for every position advocated in this thread, except:

That’s crazy, of course they do!

They also blame walkers for their glut of craptastic elevators. And I’m guessing the number of delays caused by a “sick customer” is much lower than the number attributed to such.

[KLizotte]

@dasgeh 58952 wrote:

Ah, this argument. The process that would be most efficient for all is for everyone to slow to a safe speed, and for the people in the disappearing lane to merge at the last second. Unfortunately, lots of people merge early, then get all righteous on the people that are using the available asphalt. [**Note: if those people are using the available asphalt at unsafe speeds, I agree they’re jerks**] Being efficient does not make me a jerk.

The bike shoalers defense.

[mstone]

If cabi is specifically saying that you can redock a bike, then check it out again while other people are lined up waiting, I’d like to see a citation. I think that is rather more than they’ve said, and this is a straw man argument to deflect attention from what should be a simple question of civil behavior rather than an appeal to authority.

[dasgeh]

@KLizotte 58967 wrote:

It’s called civility.

There is no law dictating that people have to give up their seats on metro or buses for pregnant women or people walking with crutches but I think we can all agree that it is a nice thing to do.

You’re right. There’s no law. There’s also no law about daisy-chaining.

There are, however, rules. If CaBi has rules that allow me to do something, and advertises that I do it, I don’t think I should be called a jerk for doing it. A person, having seen CaBi promote daisy-chaining, may plan a ride that involves daisy-chaining. May even go out of their way to d-c. Once they get to the mid-way station, if there’s someone waiting on a bike, they have 2 options: 1) continue with the plan they made based on CaBi’s rules or 2) ride on, having to pay the fee. Either way, waiting person doesn’t get a bike. I don’t think the person should have to pay the fee when they based their expectation on CaBi’s rules/advertising.

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