December 2015 ABAC Meeting

[dbb]

It seems that the biggest issues are at the transition points between where the detours start/stop and the the FMR trail. The proposed detour has cyclists crossing FMR on Route 1 and then heading west in Alexandria. While the trail there begins at Route 1, there is a poorly paved cutoff close to the bridge abutment. Might make sense to use this opportunity to improve that cutoff.

On the west side, the detour ends at Mount Vernon Ave about 0.2 miles south of the FMR trail entrance with the logical route on Mount Vernon Ave. The Mount Vernon Ave bridge sidewalk is pretty narrow (and gets a fair amount of ped traffic) so cyclists will need to be comfortable taking the roadway. The first curb cut that would allow cyclists to get back on the trail is at the intersection of Glebe and Mount Vernon, which will make for some fairly clumsy traffic there.

Seems to me that the project owners should look at how they would actually maintain traffic and make some modifications that would facilitate, well, actually maintaining traffic. We could consider a temporary curb cut to the south of the bus shelter on Mount Vernon near Glebe that would allow cyclists to get right on the trail as well as some clean up of the alternatives (the sidewalk along the Glebe by the WWTP, aggressive sweeping of Glebe to minimize road debris for cyclists, and some thought to getting cyclists off the detour on Mount Vernon and back to the trail.

[Steve O]

@dbb 129446 wrote:

On the west side, the detour ends at Mount Vernon Ave about 0.2 miles south of the FMR trail entrance with the logical route on Mount Vernon Ave. The Mount Vernon Ave bridge sidewalk is pretty narrow (and gets a fair amount of ped traffic) so cyclists will need to be comfortable taking the roadway. The first curb cut that would allow cyclists to get back on the trail is at the intersection of Glebe and Mount Vernon, which will make for some fairly clumsy traffic there.

You are describing the westbound route. At the meeting I brought up the situation for eastbound cyclists. If we use your strategy that cyclists will need to be comfortable taking the lane, then they would cross Mt. Vernon, ride across the bridge, cross Mt. Vernon again to get to the trail. The Alexandria crossing is not at a light.

Or
They would have to “salmon” the sidewalk across the bridge (not sure you can salmon on a sidewalk, but you get my drift).
If we feel the bridge is awfully narrow to accommodate people on bikes and people on foot, then taking the detour eastbound is an even bigger problem.

[dbb]

Good point. The westbound detour is the easier of the two. Eastbound might be cleanest if you leave the trail at S Lang and take the lane/sidewalk on Glebe approaching Mount Vernon (which would be pretty busy in the morning rush). Turn south on Mount Vernon to get the detour.

Not an approach I would recommend for anybody uncomfortable with traffic – merging into a busy road and turning left onto the detour.

Clearly this entire traffic maintenance thing needs to be discussed in greater depth.

[Arlingtonrider]

It would be great to have an alternative to going through FMR Park, which is not very appealing for those of us who ride home alone late at night.

[DismalScientist]

You all might want to consider 31st street and Eads into Crystal City as an alternative. Or, if you are more masochistic, from the corner of Glebe and Glebe, take Army Navy to 20th or 23rd over the hill to CC. In both these alternative, there is a potential infrastructure issue. On the first, Glebe between the start of the project to Hill St (to get to 31st) could be a mess. On the second, the signal at Glebe and Glebe and Four Mile Drive needs to recognizes bikes on Four Mile Drive and turn appropriately green coming from the West.

[lordofthemark]

@Steve O 129449 wrote:

You are describing the westbound route. At the meeting I brought up the situation for eastbound cyclists. If we use your strategy that cyclists will need to be comfortable taking the lane, then they would cross Mt. Vernon, ride across the bridge, cross Mt. Vernon again to get to the trail. The Alexandria crossing is not at a light.

Or
They would have to “salmon” the sidewalk across the bridge (not sure you can salmon on a sidewalk, but you get my drift).
If we feel the bridge is awfully narrow to accommodate people on bikes and people on foot, then taking the detour eastbound is an even bigger problem.

Sidewalks are all two way, IIUC. There is no salmoning on sidewalks (though I would exercise due care coming to a driveway at higher than pedestrian speed in the ‘wrong” direction, but that is not an issue here – no driveways) I think the number of pedestrians may be lower in AM commuting hours (not certain) so if EB is mostly AM peak, it may not be that bad. In the worst case, one could walk one’s bike across the bridge.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 129456 wrote:

You all might want to consider 31st street and Eads into Crystal City as an alternative. Or, if you are more masochistic, from the corner of Glebe and Glebe, take Army Navy to 20th or 23rd over the hill to CC. In both these alternative, there is a potential infrastructure issue. On the first, Glebe between the start of the project to Hill St (to get to 31st) could be a mess. On the second, the signal at Glebe and Glebe and Four Mile Drive needs to recognizes bikes on Four Mile Drive and turn appropriately green coming from the West.

If you are going WB (as Arlingtonrider is concerned with) the terrain is not so bad, correct? (I did that once) But the intersection you reference is pretty bad, IIRC.

[DismalScientist]

The terrain on 31st is OK both east and westbound. The problem is Glebe Road between Hill Road and the bike trail. Since 31st goes so far north, you probably want to go north on Eads and connect with the MVT at the Crystal City Connector.

The terrain on Army Navy is OK as well. It’s a hill going east or westbound on 20th or 23rd. I think 20th is a little lower elevation and certainly has less traffic than 23rd. These hill are worse going west. An alternative is to just follow Army Navy all the way into North Crystal City and go south to get to the Crystal City Connector or go through the pedestrian tunnel under I 395 and take the Washington Blvd sidewalk to the Memorial Bridge. Army Navy is the flattest way to get to Crystal City other than the Four Mile Run trail. There is a fair amount of traffic on Army Navy, but generally it is polite.

Going eastbound, you take Four Mile Run Drive to Glebe and Glebe. Turn left onto Glebe and right on 28th in one half block. With the green light, you should have enough time to bike to 28th before traffic catches you from behind. (This is the light that should be reconfigured to be activated by bicyclists.)

Going west, turn left on Glebe from 28th and watch for cars turning south on Glebe from the exit ramp from I-395. Generally the cars are good in seeing you, but make eye contact to be sure.

[dasgeh]

[RANT] In addition to the County’s attitude about this “We need to close a major part of our trail network to save some money? Sure!” I am VERY concerned with the way they have been going about this. They only came to the BAC after insistent emails from the Chair (to which there was never a response). They clearly had not done their homework before the BAC meeting. They did not know the sidewalk widths. They had not looked at crime reports. They hadn’t thought through, aside from lines on a map, what they were using to replace a safe, comfortable trail. They hadn’t thought through how different populations will use their detour — night/early morning commuters, families, Arlington Fun Riders (there are probably lots more).

Hopefully, they will be better prepared in January, but I have been extremely disappointed by their work so far, which is something I don’t often say about County staff. [/RANT]

[Arlingtonrider]

Their “homework” should include (in addition to checking crime reports) biking through any detours under consideration, eastbound and westbound, both during the day and at night, and documenting good and bad aspects along each option under consideration.

[dbb]

@Arlingtonrider 129474 wrote:

Their “homework” should include biking through any detours under consideration, eastbound and westbound, both during the day and at night, and documenting good and bad aspects along each option under consideration.

The process of analysis of alternatives is a lot easier when you have (elect to have) a single choice. It is pretty common for highway construction to spend some money to make detours effective. It takes a bit more than drawing a couple of lines on a map. We should get the same consideration.

[AlexandriaBiker]

At a BAC meeting last winter we discussed the proposed bridge over FMR from Eads to Commonwealth. Does this project include initial bridge planning or construction? Including the work now should save Arlington some money and hopefully shorten any future closing for bridge construction. If we are lucky it may also motivate Alexandria to move the bridge up our project list.

[Steve O]

@AlexandriaBiker 129483 wrote:

At a BAC meeting last winter we discussed the proposed bridge over FMR from Eads to Commonwealth. Does this project include initial bridge planning or construction? Including the work now should save Arlington some money and hopefully shorten any future closing for bridge construction. If we are lucky it may also motivate Alexandria to move the bridge up our project list.

This idea has been bouncing around a long, long time.
http://www.thewashcycle.com/2009/10/four-mile-run-cyclistpedestrian-bridge-.html

http://www.4milerun.org/

http://www.thewashcycle.com/2011/01/alexandria-transportation-committee-to-discuss-bikeped-grants.html

http://www.novaregion.org/DocumentCenter/View/10460 (go to slide 32)

[chris_s]

@dasgeh 129401 wrote:

* A redevelopment at the Berkeley, which is just west of the work area for the environmental project. I believe the plans involve repaving (so short term closure). The redevelopment plans do NOT include taking down the fence at the back of the parking lot. A relevant meeting is being held 12/21.

FYI – the 12/21 meeting about the Berkeley has been re-scheduled for January 28th.

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