Custis Trail Users Have My Sympathy
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brendan.
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March 22, 2012 at 5:58 pm #938194
SpokeGrenadeSR
ParticipantIn my experience, calling ‘on your left’ when there’s ample room to pass has actually made the situation a bit more dangerous because the person I’m passing often twitches to “correct” their line, or check who’s coming from behind them and swerve a bit. So I only call out if they’re hugging the center line or are just generally a twitchy looking rider, but if they’re just doin their thing on the proper side of the trail I just carry on by.
It’s like if you were in a car, would you like someone honking at you every time you were about to be passed? Just check over your shoulder if you’re going to be turning off or you move over, and you won’t have to worry about being hit or surprised.
But that’s just how I operate.March 22, 2012 at 7:28 pm #938197OneEighth
ParticipantIt is no different than the gym right after New Years. Any time you quickly change a population, the previously prevailing norm is going to be overwhelmed by the behaviors that the new group brings.
Put very bluntly, when the weather gets nice, the trails get filled with a bunch of drivers on bicycles.
Most of those who decide to stick with it (yeah!) will eventually come around to the same behaviors/trail etiquette as the other year-round riders. Just like in the gym (where people do eventually learn to ask if they can work in, etc).
Not much use getting upset. Better to keep setting a good example with good grace and realize it’s not a sprint.
Be Dirt.March 23, 2012 at 1:00 pm #938220off2ride
ParticipantThat is right. I would rather deal with bike traffic than Beltway congestion. At least if somebody is stopped on front you in the bike trail, the easy way out of it is to go around them not unless they need some kind of assistance. Basically the commute flows and I get my ride in for the day.
@Subby 16933 wrote:
I know this sounds trite, but the worst day on the Custis is still a million times better than the %^&* traffic I deal with on my car commute from McLean to DC. Sure, plowing over a kid is your outlier worst case scenario but everything else is really just a minor annoyance compared to sitting in traffic on suburban feeder streets, wanting to claw your eyes out.
March 23, 2012 at 1:01 pm #938221mstone
Participantthat’s why a bell is better than yelling at someone
March 23, 2012 at 3:00 pm #938229GuyContinental
Participant@SpokeGrenadeSR 16975 wrote:
In my experience, calling ‘on your left’ when there’s ample room to pass has actually made the situation a bit more dangerous because the person I’m passing often twitches to “correct” their line, or check who’s coming from behind them and swerve a bit. So I only call out if they’re hugging the center line or are just generally a twitchy looking rider, but if they’re just doin their thing on the proper side of the trail I just carry on by.
I totally agree with walkers/runners although I usually warn riders and always warn stroller pushers. If I’m 5′ away on a clear trail in daylight a warning will create more issues than it will prevent. A MUCH bigger problem are the headphones (on all types of peds)- they can’t hear you if you warn them anyway and when they do hear, they generally freak out. Keep that left ear clear people…
March 23, 2012 at 3:04 pm #938230SpokeGrenadeSR
Participant@GuyContinental 17013 wrote:
always warn stroller pushers.
ah yes, i do this too, anytime there’s a child involved i slow down drastically because they are some of the most unpredictable things in existence.
@mstone 17004 wrote:
that’s why a bell is better than yelling at someone
agreed, i just find im always riding the bike without the bell when i need it haha
March 23, 2012 at 3:40 pm #938231pfunkallstar
Participant[QUOTE= i just find im always riding the bike without the bell when i need it haha
I really want one of those old-timey car horns that go AWOOGA AWOOGA.
March 23, 2012 at 4:12 pm #938234SpokeGrenadeSR
Participant@pfunkallstar 17015 wrote:
I really want one of those old-timey car horns that go AWOOGA AWOOGA.
oh my god yes please! i can’t think of an honest reason for why they stopped installing horns on bikes, so sad.
March 23, 2012 at 5:04 pm #938236txgoonie
Participant@SpokeGrenadeSR 16975 wrote:
In my experience, calling ‘on your left’ when there’s ample room to pass has actually made the situation a bit more dangerous because the person I’m passing often twitches to “correct” their line, or check who’s coming from behind them and swerve a bit. So I only call out if they’re hugging the center line or are just generally a twitchy looking rider, but if they’re just doin their thing on the proper side of the trail I just carry on by.
It’s like if you were in a car, would you like someone honking at you every time you were about to be passed? Just check over your shoulder if you’re going to be turning off or you move over, and you won’t have to worry about being hit or surprised.
But that’s just how I operate.I know this doesn’t help the discussion, but I have to disagree that warning causes more problems – this from someone who splits her time pretty evenly between being a rider and a ped. Perhaps other people are less twitchy that I am, but being passed by a rider without warning scares the crap out of me. It induces a shot of adrenaline I just don’t need. If you’re going 10mph or can pass with a good 5 feet of clearance, then, alright – ride on. But the vast majority of passes don’t occur under these conditions. Personally, I never run with earphones, and, since I find myself often running at dawn/dusk times of day, I’m swaddled in headlight, blinkie and reflective belts and straps. I do all of that – I sacrifice any semblance of looking cool
– to keep both YOU and me safe. A collision is bad for both of us. I figure that if I’m doing my part to run predictably, follow the rules of the trail, be visible and keep us all safe, then taking a second to say “on your left” or ring a bell really isn’t asking too much. And I’m willing to wager that failure to warn when passing is much more often not a deliberate choice on the part of the rider but rather ignorance (especially this time of year) or plain old being inconsiderate and lazy. And, like I said, I’m on a bike half the time and have not had more problems brought on by calling my passes (and have been yelled at when I have my own moment of laziness and not warning).
On my run this morning, I was super stoked to see the number of people out riding but pretty bummed by the percentage who called their passes. To be fair – there were very few runners decked out in what I thought was an appropriate amount of safety/lighting gear.
March 23, 2012 at 5:19 pm #938237SpokeGrenadeSR
ParticipantOk, it’s good to hear the other side of the story. Much of my experience is based on riding in Boston, and much of it riding on bike lanes attached to streets, or streets without bike lanes, but very few paths.. So I guess it’s fair to assume the dynamics of a dedicated/street-separated path allows for less issues from those hearing “on your left”, and they likely have more confidence in their surroundings with regards to those who are travelling on the path with them as opposed to riding in a street full of vehicles.
(I hope that came out right/comprehensible)
March 23, 2012 at 6:23 pm #938238Bill Hole
ParticipantI use the trails both as a biker and as a ped., and I’d like to add three points to this discussion:
1. I hate it when riders pass with no audible warning. It startles me and my wife, and it’s just foolish and dangerous.
2. “On your left” confuses peds. I’ve had way too many of them veer left when they hear the “left”. Either a bell or “Bike passing” works better – it lets them know I’m coming and they can use their common sense to know which side I’m on. The one exception to this is when I’m passing one of those numbskulls who run up the middle of the trail or street (i.e. closed sections of Beach Dr.). Then I let them know which side I’m passing on – could be to the right.
3. People who wear earbuds or headphones on the trails and streets are a hazard to themselves and everyone around them. That goes double for cyclists. Cyclists who wear phones while they’re riding are candidates for the Darwin Awards. I’ve been flamed to a charred pulp for expressing this opinion on other bike forums, but I’ll suffer some singed eyebrows for the truth.
March 23, 2012 at 6:39 pm #938239SpokeGrenadeSR
ParticipantIf the universally used “On your left” confuses peds (a point we seem to agree on to an extent), what makes you think they’ll have enough common sense to handle “Bike passing” and decide which way to move?
March 23, 2012 at 6:39 pm #938240jabberwocky
Participant@Bill Hole 17022 wrote:
3. People who wear earbuds or headphones on the trails and streets are a hazard to themselves and everyone around them. That goes double for cyclists. Cyclists who wear phones while they’re riding are candidates for the Darwin Awards. I’ve been flamed to a charred pulp for expressing this opinion on other bike forums, but I’ll suffer some singed eyebrows for the truth.
++++++ times a billion.
March 23, 2012 at 7:08 pm #938242brendan
Participant@SpokeGrenadeSR 17014 wrote:
ah yes, i do this too, anytime there’s a child involved i slow down drastically because they are some of the most unpredictable things in existence.
Yep, pets and kids == slow the frak down. Sometimes tourist areas require treating everyone as pets and kids and perhaps should be avoided when their density reaches a certain level.
I find what has worked the best for me is both ringing a bell early (perhaps multiple times if you’re in a place where pedestrians seem surprised there are bikes, or are drunk, like the Key bridge walkways) and calling the pass in the middle distance as I close. The bell gets their attention, hopefully, and let’s them know what (a bike) is coming. Ringing early also allows parents and pet owners a chance to make their move, if they are going to, to increase the safety of their wards. I’ll usually just exclaim “passing on the left!” in the mid-distance, unless the party being passed is multiple people or acted odd at the bell. If it gets complex, I keep slowing and communicating until it is safe to pass in terms of their behavior, the terrain and the oncoming traffic.
Often people will move to the left at the bell or the pass call for whatever reason…or, even worse, a multi-person party will split down the middle. That’s the most fun when it’s a couple with two dogs, one on each side. So, I really slow down and call the pass “passing on the right!” or “uh…passing down the center?”
If there’s a horse and rider, no bells: I just stop and ask if it is safe to pass. If it’s a mounted park police officer or similar, I ask if I should walk the bike by. They usually tell me I can ride by, so I assume their mounts are very well trained. But always give the widest possible pass.
Speaking of…a large poodle breed jump across its owner’s path and up at my head last week on the W&OD in Falls Church. I have the image of his snarling face about six inches in front and six inches to the right of mine burned into my mind pretty deeply. I had belled, the owner moved right and nudged her dog, which was leashed and on her right, slightly off the trail. I called the pass. I passed as wide as I could, but clearly the dog felt I was a threat and just went nuts. Apparently surprised the hell out of its owner as well, from the yelling at the dog. I wasn’t going super fast but I didn’t slow down very much either…maybe 12-14mph. Not sure if going too fast spooked it or if going fast saved me from a face bite.
Brendan
PS – and yet, I often wear headphones…
March 23, 2012 at 7:10 pm #938243dasgeh
Participant@SpokeGrenadeSR 17023 wrote:
If the universally used “On your left” confuses peds (a point we seem to agree on to an extent), what makes you think they’ll have enough common sense to handle “Bike passing” and decide which way to move?
I believe the point is that peds often only hear “left” and think that means they should move left. From personal experience, this seems to be more true with out-of-towners. So if you say “passing”, they know you’re coming and don’t have a direction to confuse them. Though if they’re not used to bikes, they’ll probably turn when they hear anything. I just assume that will happen and plan for extra space.
I’d also like to make a plug for calls when passing other cyclists. Cars don’t honk every time they pass because (1) other cars have lots of mirrors and (2) cars generally make noise. I look for passing bikes, but the blind spot is just bigger than the comparable spot on a car. And the fact that bikes coming up behind you are pretty much silent makes it more dangerous. So please, call passes.
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