Considering a Steel Cyclocross Frame

[83b]

@hozn 91199 wrote:

Not as far as I know/have experienced. Titanium is flexible and when the frame is trying to be lightweight, even more so. My Lemond Victoire, for example, was very laterally flexible: I could make the brakes rub easily on climbs and see the BB moving side to side significantly on the trainer. I am sure some frames are better than others but afaik the Lemond frame was well regarded.

I’ve heard that the Victoire was a flexy frame, but don’t have any firsthand experience. On my old Litespeed mountain frame, the V-brakes visibly flex the seat-stays, causing significant loss of power, particularly on long descents. It’s less of a problem now that it’s used as a city bike, but was a real problem on a trail bike if you didn’t run a brake booster.

[hozn]

@JeremyCannon 91245 wrote:

Thanks, yeah I’m pretty sure steel is out of the picture now. The two carbon frame set’s i’ve been looking at are the Trek Boone 9 Disc F/S and the Felt F1x. One nice thing about the Boone 9 is that there is a pretty good chance it is made in the USA since it’s Trek’s 600 Series carbon, and that it comes with a carbon seat mast cap and stem. Any thoughts on those?

Can you get the Trek for EP? If so, that might be a nice option. Those bikes are pretty different fit-wise — though the angles are similar (~73/~72 for STA/HTA). The Felt is pretty long. I’m with vvill on this one, though, I would advise against plunking down $2+k for a race frameset on your first foray into CX.

For me, first choice for a race bike is that RLT9. Sure it’s alloy, but the weight is great and I don’t think frame material really matters here. It’s the weight that counts. Second choice would probably be sourcing an open-mold Chinese carbon frame — e.g. from LT bikes or Yishun (that’s where I bought my disc road frame), though specific models there look a little small for me (you might have a harder time, since at 6’1″ I can often make a 58cm work). That’s probably around $600 for the frameset. Third choice might be something like the On-One frames — i.e. open-mold designs but backed by a company so easier to warranty. You pay a bit of a premium for that, but removes some risk.

Anyway, I would just shop around and grab something used to dive into CX then see how you want to run it. Recently someone was selling a 59cm Lemond Poprad (disc) on CL — that probably would have fit, as those are long bikes. As vvill pointed out there are lots of equipment options in CX. 1x? is pretty popular, for example. And I agree that wheelset is probably going to matter more than the frame. Building a Stans Crest wheelset really made a big difference for how my bike handled singletrack (far fewer flats!). I’m actually looking to build a new CX wheelset (need to replace my hubs as I’m switching to thru-bolts for my roady-y wheels and want to use the same hubs on my cx wheels) and am looking at building a set of Iron Cross or Grail wheels. (I would vote to save your money and buy Hope or WI or DT Swiss 350 hubs, but that’s probably another topic!)

[vvill]

Yeah 1×10 or 1×11 is definitely on the rise. The top level Kona CX for the 2015 model year is a 1×11 now, and with hydraulic brakes.

Speaking of hydraulics, there’s always going to be a latest-and-greatest thing being pushed by the bike industry. While it’s great to see new tech, it also means it’s rarely worth paying a premium for the newest stuff – in a few short years the best selling/performing new innovations will trickle down to more entry level price points. Disc brakes are still settling down – it seems like no one can agree on thru axles yet, and recently Shimano launched a new disc brake mounting system.

@JeremyCannon 91262 wrote:

I’m definitely going to get some nice wheels too, which is part of the reason i am planning on doing a custom build kit. I am leaning towards a nice alloy rim with some disc compatible king hubs.

You can often change parts from a stock build and pay the difference in $ if you buy from an LBS. Or buy a second wheelset, and keep the stock one for general use riding (I did this). Many serious CX riders have pit wheels or pit bikes, so having a spare wheelset doesn’t hurt.

[JeremyCannon]

I think i just have to ride a couple bikes at this point, but one of my next questions is that i’ve heard that cantilever is better for racing because of weight loss. Is this true?

[hozn]

You might save a little weight, but you sacrifice stopping power. Disc brakes are so much nicer in so many ways. If it were 100% a racing bike, maybe …. but all signs are indicating that discs are replacing rim brakes in cross (I thought I remembered reading recently that one of the big mfrs wont even be offering rim-brake cx models for 2015 — Cannondale?). I would hazard to say that across the cycling spectrum rim brakes are obsolete technology, though that is probably overstating it.

[vvill]

@JeremyCannon 91401 wrote:

I think i just have to ride a couple bikes at this point, but one of my next questions is that i’ve heard that cantilever is better for racing because of weight loss. Is this true?

Also try out the Thursday night CX course practice loops at Gravelly Point. Even if you’re on a MTB/hybrid/whatever. It’ll give you a good idea of what a CX race is like. https://www.facebook.com/groups/162748097090623/ I believe Bikenetic is also doing some Tuesday night CX rides on singletrack(?)

Cantis are lighter no doubt, but disc seems to be taking over across the major manufacturers. There are pros/cons with both – personally I’m with hozn on disc brakes being worth it, but ultimately it’s your call. Many racers (especially pros in Europe) still ride on cantis.

[JeremyCannon]

Thanks, and then my next question is Mechanical vs Hydraulic Disc brakes? i’m currently leaning towards BB7s.

[bluerider]

@JeremyCannon 91521 wrote:

Thanks, and then my next question is Mechanical vs Hydraulic Disc brakes? i’m currently leaning towards BB7s.

I will chip in for the TRP Hy/Rd. I used some during my Vaya build. The hybrid cable and hydro brakes is a nice compromise in power and simplicity.

[hozn]

+1 for the TRP Hy/Rd (“high road”). I did not end up getting these for my disc road build; there was a supply issue when I was sourcing my brakes. I got the TRP Spyre brakes instead, which are also an awesome pure mechanical option. Dual caliper design is really nice (BB7 are single caliper); so far it seems to keep the rotors true, but may be luck/coincidence. I find these need less adjustment (just turn the barrel) than the BB7s, but you do have to loosen the bolt and pull the cable once or twice over then life of the pads.

Stopping power is about the same as BB7. (They claim it is better, maybe a little bit). I will say that using them in combination with Avid HSX rotors yields much better stopping power than the stock TRP rotors. I have both setups (otherwise same lever mechanics, cables, housing, pads) and the difference is quite noticeable. Both setups are more than adequate, but I might switch to 160/160 rotors on the commuter since I am often pulling (and stopping) a trailer. I am currently running 160/140 rotors (F/R) on both my road bike and CX/commuter.

Of course you can’t go wrong with BB7s either.

I don’t really want to deal with the hassle or expense of full hydros, but others will tell you it is much better. The Hy/Rd is a pretty sweet comprise / best-of-both-worlds solution.

[peterw_diy]

Conventional wisdom seems to be that the “road” BB7 aren’t as good as the “mountain” BB7. So if you’ll run brifters or road brake levers, conventional wisdom says go TRP. I don’t ride off-road enough to justify replacing my canti MTB but I can’t imagine wanting rim brakes for any bike that goes through as much mess as MTB or CX. Maybe if a sponsor supplied my pads and wheels….

[bluerider]

@hozn 91539 wrote:

+1 for the TRP Hy/Rd (“high road”). I did not end up getting these for my disc road build; there was a supply issue when I was sourcing my brakes. I got the TRP Spyre brakes instead, which are also an awesome pure mechanical option. Dual caliper design is really nice (BB7 are single caliper); so far it seems to keep the rotors true, but may be luck/coincidence. I find these need less adjustment (just turn the barrel) than the BB7s, but you do have to loosen the bolt and pull the cable once or twice over then life of the pads.

Stopping power is about the same as BB7. (They claim it is better, maybe a little bit). I will say that using them in combination with Avid HSX rotors yields much better stopping power than the stock TRP rotors. I have both setups (otherwise same lever mechanics, cables, housing, pads) and the difference is quite noticeable. Both setups are more than adequate, but I might switch to 160/160 rotors on the commuter since I am often pulling (and stopping) a trailer. I am currently running 160/140 rotors (F/R) on both my road bike and CX/commuter.

Of course you can’t go wrong with BB7s either.

I don’t really want to deal with the hassle or expense of full hydros, but others will tell you it is much better. The Hy/Rd is a pretty sweet comprise / best-of-both-worlds solution.

I wanted to add that after 1,200 miles on my Vaya since February I have not had to touch the TRP Hy/Rds with the exception of a couple of cable adjustments after the cables stretched a bit. The hydro section of the caliper automatically adjusts the pads for wear over time. So far, the Hy/Rds have been pretty much a bolt-on and forget about it item. These brakes remind me of how inadequate the Avid Ultimate Cantis are on my Norcross EX.

[hozn]

@bluerider 91572 wrote:

I wanted to add that after 1,200 miles on my Vaya since February I have not had to touch the TRP Hy/Rds with the exception of a couple of cable adjustments after the cables stretched a bit. The hydro section of the caliper automatically adjusts the pads for wear over time. So far, the Hy/Rds have been pretty much a bolt-on and forget about it item. These brakes remind me of how inadequate the Avid Ultimate Cantis are on my Norcross EX.

Nice. Do you know offhand whether the pads will “re-center” themselves if you switch wheels and the rotors were off my a fraction of a mm (or more)? I have been wondering this. Not having to ensure all (both) my wheelsets use same hubs [for adjustment-free changes] would be really nice …

[bluerider]

@hozn 91574 wrote:

Nice. Do you know offhand whether the pads will “re-center” themselves if you switch wheels and the rotors were off my a fraction of a mm (or more)? I have been wondering this. Not having to ensure all (both) my wheelsets use same hubs [for adjustment-free changes] would be really nice …

Yes, I believe they will. There is literally no pad adjustment options. It just happens. That being said, I don’t switch wheels so I can’t directly vouch for that.

[hozn]

I will do a little more research on that, but think I will give this a shot …. I was also a little nervous about hydro in freezing temps, but hopefully not an issue (?).

[bluerider]

@hozn 91577 wrote:

I will do a little more research on that, but think I will give this a shot …. I was also a little nervous about hydro in freezing temps, but hopefully not an issue (?).

If we meet up somewhere, you are welcome to test ride mine to see what you think.

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