Connecticut Avenue underpass at Dupont Circle

[planetmike]

BTW, I posed this same question to Jim at DDOT and WABA directly but no reply as per usual….

[MCL1981]

I think your condescending attitude toward the police officer is what is more in question than whether cycling through the tunnel is allowed or not. It is standard procedure to check the ID of those whom are stopped. Alleging it was for intimidation is purely a lie. And stopping you for going through the tunnel was not “abusing his authority”. Either it IS illegal and you are wrong (perish the thought), or it isn’t illegal and it was an honest mistake on his part. And his assertion that it is not safe is correct regardless of legal or not and his intention was clearly not malicious. It is laughable that you posted a picture of his cruiser as if anyone would go after him for doing his job to the best of his abilities. Though I might look him up and send him a thank you note for stopping you. Maybe if you didn’t just assume every hard working police officer was out to get you, you wouldn’t make such foolish posts on the internet.

If you posted your question with the same condescending holier than thou attitude to DDOT and WABA, I am not surprised you didn’t get an answer.

[planetmike]

Thanks for your useless ad hominem comments and not answering my question about the legality of the route.

I think it most reasonable to EXPECT the one enforcing the law to know it.

@MCL1981 10640 wrote:

I think your condescending attitude toward the police officer is what is more in question than whether cycling through the tunnel is allowed or not. It is standard procedure to check the ID of those whom are stopped. Alleging it was for intimidation is purely a lie. And stopping you for going through the tunnel was not “abusing his authority”. Either it IS illegal and you are wrong (perish the thought), or it isn’t illegal and it was an honest mistake on his part. And his assertion that it is not safe is correct regardless of legal or not and his intention was clearly not malicious. It is laughable that you posted a picture of his cruiser as if anyone would go after him for doing his job to the best of his abilities. Though I might look him up and send him a thank you note for stopping you. Maybe if you didn’t just assume every hard working police officer was out to get you, you wouldn’t make such foolish posts on the internet.

If you posted your question with the same condescending holier than thou attitude to DDOT and WABA, I am not surprised you didn’t get an answer.

[MCL1981]

@planetmike 10643 wrote:

Thanks for your useless ad hominem comments and not answering my question about the legality of the route.

You must be a real joy to meet the first time and hope you take the same criticism when you peer into a mirror.

I think it most reasonable to EXPECT the one enforcing the law to know it.

I’m quite nice to meet in person, when the person I’m meeting isn’t insulting an entire profession for something you don’t even know the answer to in the first place.

You’re whining that I didn’t answer your question. Yet a good half or more of your post was nothing to do with your question. Rather it was about alleging this police officer was persecuting you and abusing his power. You opened the door to that discussion, so don’t complain when someone responds to it. If my response is “useless ad hominem”, then I guess that would make half of your post useless ad hominem as well. Had you simply asked the question without accusing the police officer of baseless malfeasance, then I would have had nothing to say on the matter other than wonder it myself. It is a great question.

As for suggesting that the police officers know everything about everything, I presume you’ve never been wrong or made a mistake in the course of your job either, right?

[dasgeh]

I’ve been wondering the same thing about Virginia Ave under 23rd Street. I believe that particular stretch is even safer for cyclists (rarely 2 lanes of cars) – not the DC traffic laws have a perfect correlation to safety.

I am of the mind that police should not use their authority (e.g. to pull someone over) unless (1) they are certain of the law or (2) someone is in imminent danger. It’s sounds like neither was the case here, so I understand the disdain. Since you have identifying information on the police officer and his car, maybe you should report him to his precinct.

[DismalScientist]

@MCL1981 10640 wrote:

And his assertion that it is not safe is correct regardless of legal or not and his intention was clearly not malicious.

I’ll be the judge of whether something I do is safe or not. Tunnel or traffic circle? I can see reasons to prefer either. Some can pick up a lot of speed and keep up traffic. This doesn’t necessarily seem unsafe to me.

Where Mass goes under Thomas Circle (I think), there’s a no pedestrian sign for the tunnel. I don’t know what activities that sign covers.

[planetmike]

I believe the term “profession” has been used a bit loosely of late. A profession is typically characterized by a governing State wide or National organization which tests, certifies and licenses an individual in that profession. This certification typically requires a review on a periodic basis. If this certification lapses or a violation is made by the individual, the license can be revoked and you are out of a job.

A professional, as I am, also considers one’s actions and confers with colleagues prior to taking action or making decisions which impact those they serve. In this context, I do NOT make such mistakes.

I now ask that you keep your comments regarding the legality of the situation or comment on the zealousness of the cop. I am clearly in my right to commute to work on my bicycle without being harassed.

@MCL1981 10645 wrote:

I’m quite nice to meet in person, when the person I’m meeting isn’t insulting an entire profession for something you don’t even know the answer to in the first place.

You’re whining that I didn’t answer your question. Yet a good half or more of your post was nothing to do with your question. Rather it was about alleging this police officer was persecuting you and abusing his power. You opened the door to that discussion, so don’t complain when someone responds to it. If my response is “useless ad hominem”, then I guess that would make half of your post useless ad hominem as well. Had you simply asked the question without accusing the police officer of baseless malfeasance, then I would have had nothing to say on the matter other than wonder it myself. It is a great question.

As for suggesting that the police officers know everything about everything, I presume you’ve never been wrong or made a mistake in the course of your job either, right?

[DSalovesh]

I’m pretty sure the police get things like this wrong more often than they get it right, generally speaking.

That doesn’t change how we as individuals behave. Case by case we ask officers to be vigilant for individual and collective safety, and to sift through the IDs of people they casually encounter so fewer wanted people slip past. Disobeying an officer is a charge on its own, as is fleeing – with potentially higher consequences (legal and physical) than biking where you may or may not be allowed.

It sounds like the officer was acting in good faith, not harassment, and may simply be wrong. ..it happens. He didn’t write you a ticket, or even give a written warning, so set aside the fact that you felt bad about it – using police power is not inherently abusive.

Instead why not use the scenario as an opportunity to make positive change? The record is still open (until Tuesday) for the DC Council’s Judiciary Committee hearing on bicycle and pedestrian enforcement matters – write this up and send it in as an example of how police officers in DC don’t know the applicable laws.

You might also be able to educate the cops. There’s not enough information in the photo you took to really track down the officer (sorry – need his badge or face) but here are a bunch of contacts within the 2nd police district:

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1239,q,544687,mpdcNav_GID,1535.asp

The location where you were stopped is in PSA 208, so those specific contacts (Lt. Scott Dignan and Capt. Melvin Gresham) may be particularly helpful.

[gregbilling]

(WABA Response)

Yes, it is legal to ride the underpasses in DC unless otherwise posted (I don’t know of such a sign prohibiting bicycling in the tunnels).

With that said, the DC Municipal Regulations Section 1201.15 states, “No person shall operate a bicycle except in obedience to the instructions of official traffic control signals, signs, and other control devices applicable to vehicles, unless otherwise directed by a police officer or other person authorized to direct and control traffic.”

An officer could instruct you to not ride there and if you continued, they would have the authority to issue you a citation for not following the instructions of an officer.

This situation happened to me last year. Despite being very clear with the officer about the law, he persisted that “if I see you riding here again, I’ll cite you.”

For future interaction with the police, it will require careful handling and a humble attitude. Ask questions. Don’t preach. Be curious. Ask for explanations. Be helpful. Educate the officer without them know you are doing so. Use the WABA pocket law guide to back up you information.

Greg

[MCL1981]

@planetmike 10653 wrote:

I believe the term “profession” has been used a bit loosely of late. A profession is typically characterized by a governing State wide or National organization which tests, certifies and licenses an individual in that profession. This certification typically requires a review on a periodic basis. If this certification lapses or a violation is made by the individual, the license can be revoked and you are out of a job.

A professional, as I am, also considers one’s actions and confers with colleagues prior to taking action or making decisions which impact those they serve. In this context, I do NOT make such mistakes.

I now ask that you keep your comments regarding the legality of the situation or comment on the zealousness of the cop. I am clearly in my right to commute to work on my bicycle without being harassed.

Ok. You never make mistakes. I’m sorry. I didn’t know I was having a conversation with the living breathing version of perfection. No wonder you hate the police so much. Your so arrogant, you feel that you are a professional simply by definition and you never make mistakes because of that. Therefore any interaction with the police MUST be automatically wrong since you are obviously always right. In fact, the arrogance of this is doubled since not only do you feel this way, but you actually come right out and say it!

You have no right to tell me to keep my comments to myself on your arrogant jerk attitude towards police. You made that matter the primary focus of your very first post. If you didn’t want to hear other people’s opinion on the matter, don’t spew your own on it.

[dasgeh]

@MCL1981 10664 wrote:

your arrogant jerk attitude

To this date, I have been incredibly impressed by this forum and the general decorum here, even when we disagree with each other. MCL1981, I believe you are out of line here. You have expressed that you disagree with some things that planetmike wrote. That I can respect. But you have devolved into assuming you know traits about planetmike (that he’s arrogant, has an arrogant jerk attitude) that apply more generally than to his post.

As they say, we can disagree without being disagreeable. I think you’ve crossed the line.

[MCL1981]

I didn’t think I was crossing the line given he posted that he is by default a professional and does not make mistakes. I agree with your assessment of this forum’s decorum and I don’t want to change that. However I am having difficulty finding a more appropriate description of this individual’s apparent attitude toward the world. I could probably have done without it. But for the discussion in general, he opened the door to this by creating a post about it.

[americancyclo]

@dasgeh 10647 wrote:

I’ve been wondering the same thing about Virginia Ave under 23rd Street. I believe that particular stretch is even safer for cyclists (rarely 2 lanes of cars) – not the DC traffic laws have a perfect correlation to safety.

A lot of folks (myself included) ride VA Ave under 23rd st every day. Just need to be aware of merging to the left lane to get to the Kennedy Center and Bridge.

[americancyclo]

@gregbilling 10658 wrote:

This situation happened to me last year. Despite being very clear with the officer about the law, he persisted that “if I see you riding here again, I’ll cite you.”

Greg- that makes me curious. It seems that the legality of an action could then depend on who is observing you. If the cop sees you and tells you not to ride in that street, then riding there is illegal (?) but if another cop is watching, and doesn’t say anything, riding there is not illegal? Would the first cop have to tell you each time not to ride there, since if he didn’t tell you not to ride there, then it would still be legal? Where would the record of that be? Strange wording, and I might worry about the interpretations of that particular part of the law. What was your outcome?

[planetmike]

Thanks Greg. Useful information.

I was polite, as a bicycle commuter of over 10 years here in DC. However, I would rather pay higher taxes and not live in a police state. This is one reason I moved out of Virginia.

@gregbilling 10658 wrote:

(WABA Response)

Yes, it is legal to ride the underpasses in DC unless otherwise posted (I don’t know of such a sign prohibiting bicycling in the tunnels).

With that said, the DC Municipal Regulations Section 1201.15 states, “No person shall operate a bicycle except in obedience to the instructions of official traffic control signals, signs, and other control devices applicable to vehicles, unless otherwise directed by a police officer or other person authorized to direct and control traffic.”

An officer could instruct you to not ride there and if you continued, they would have the authority to issue you a citation for not following the instructions of an officer.

This situation happened to me last year. Despite being very clear with the officer about the law, he persisted that “if I see you riding here again, I’ll cite you.”

For future interaction with the police, it will require careful handling and a humble attitude. Ask questions. Don’t preach. Be curious. Ask for explanations. Be helpful. Educate the officer without them know you are doing so. Use the WABA pocket law guide to back up you information.

Greg

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