C&O Trip Planning Questions

[DismalScientist]

Practice rides are useful for two reasons. First, you need to toughen up the kids. Second, you want them to be used to their equipment and “road” conditions. For the second, I suggest you load them up with equipment and put them on and unpaved road or trail.

Given the surface of the C&O, I would suggest a touring (or cross) bike with 32-35 mm tires. You can always put 28 mm tires and use it as a utility/commuter bike. I don’t think that the C&O warrants any suspension. Upright or drop bars are dependent on user preference.

[mstone]

Cross county trail is often rougher than the canal, and there’s a good chance of breaking a bike that would be fine on the towpath. There are parts of the stream valley network in fairfax that are comparable to the towpath, but it can be hard to put them together, especially for novices that you want to keep out of traffic.

Is this a supported tour? If so, the need for training loaded is less (no load) and you’re mostly just needing time in saddle. The towpath is a pretty easy ride, the biggest challenge is just being on the bike for a long time if they aren’t used to it.

[mstone]

Oh, and tire size will mostly affect speed: if you use skinny tires on the rougher sections of the western towpath you stand a good chance of breaking something at speed. Slower, it’ll be fine (but bigger will be more comfortable).

[sjclaeys]

I’ve biked the C&O and I have led bike rides with Scouts, but have not done both at the same time. Taking Scouts on training rides is a real challenge because they vary in cycling skills, abilities and experience. You are right to be concerned to ride on the trails on weekend, though we have had good luck on the W&OD west of Vienna. An option is the Prince William Forest park, which has a nice paved 7-mile circular road. The traffic is not that bad, no worries about running into on-coming cyclists and pedestrians, and no one is far from finishing when they get tired. The C&O is very different north of Harper’s Ferry or so. It can be muddy single track through knee-high grass for many miles, so I think doing it on a road bike would be a challenge. I rode it in three day increments, stopping in Hancock (go to Weaver’s for the pies) and Harper’s Ferry. The C&O south of Williamsport can be very wet and is sometimes flooded. An option is to go on the road at Williamsport, go through Antietam and rejoin the C&O.

[KS1G]

Liz:

Good on you for doing this! Shakedown and practice rides are a great idea, for the adults going on the trip as well as the boys. You’ll initially be amazed at the range of bikes that show up, and their maintenance (or lack of). Plan a few evening/weekend meetings on bike maintenance and trail-side repairs.

A few more thoughts. Depending on the size of your group and number of adults (2-deep leadership!), you may want to split into an older/more experienced cyclists (faster) and younger/less experienced (slower). We had about 12 scouts and 5 adults on one trip (self-supported); another trip was much larger with a broader age range (vehicle supported). If you have sufficient non-riding adult support, carrying overnight gear in vehicles, at least for the younger scouts, will make it easier for scouts to get by just carrying their day supplies (easier to carry in a camelback on an MTB, which probably most of them will be riding). Although I prefered the self-contained mode; provides much more flexibility, such as continuing to less-used Hike & Bike campsites lacking vehicle access (also lacking drunken adult jet skiers). This also gave the Scoutmaster much amusement at our pre-trip shakedown meeting dumping all the un-needed stuff I had packed (my argument it was all “downhill” fell on deaf ears. 😮 )

W&OD has a gravel side path for much of it’s length. Just watch out for horses & their leave-behinds!

Use Cycling MB as additional guide & objective, especially useful for the boys who want to ride but can’t do the trip for some reason. If your unit has leaders and older scouts who are experienced backpackers/hikers/high adventures, use their experience to figure out what equipment to bring, meal planning, etc. If self-contained, arrange for a resupply and meal provided by non-riding parents mid-way for a fun respite from backpacker-style cooking. Bring something to flavor H&B site pump water in case they biys think it tastes “weird”.

Bikes & Tires. Our trips had mostly MTBs (mix of hard tail and full suspension) for the boys, hardtail mtb, hybrid (actually a pretty good choice), tourer, and cross for the adults. I don’t recall any pure road types. A trike or ‘bent would work, and I’ve seen Bike Friday folders on the C&O. It is not challenging terrain, but can be muddy and very bumpy in spots. IMO, 28mm is the minimal size I’d recommend; 32mm is preferable. Big knobby tires, however, are not needed. Bring spare tubes & inflators (Topeak ‘morph is my favorite), make sure you know how to switch it from presta to schrader valves as most of the boy’s will have that style tube. While the C&O doesn’t require a suspension (I’ve ridden a hardtail MTB and cross/commuter-style on it), 180+ miles of vibration can be punishing. In particular, any nuts or bolts that can vibrate loose will, especially if they are holding up a cargo rack! You’ll need headlamps/flashlights to walk through the PawPaw tunnel, and cell phone service can be spotty in the northern sections of the C&O (at least that was the case several years ago the last time I rode it).

The bikewashingtondc.org website (I think that’s the url) has a large section on the C&O and group trips. The Yahoo Groups coTowpath group is an excellent source for current towpath conditions, and there are numerous trip reports in the group archives, including those made by Scout groups. A lot of local troops and venture crews ride the C&O, so ask around at District Roundtable for advice from units that have done this before. Some troops make this an annual or alt-year event and have a huge amount of experience. Don’t forget to order the trail patch and segments (one from each council) so you can have a nice award ceremony at a subsequent troop meeting.

BTW, while it is a bit of a climb (!) up from the C&O and I’m not sure I’d want younger scouts riding the rt 34 shoulder, Nutters Ice Cream in Sharpsburg is a great midday stop!

[mstone]

@KS1G 33576 wrote:

Bring something to flavor H&B site pump water in case they biys think it tastes “weird”.[/quote]

If they don’t think the water tastes weird, there’s something wrong with them.

[Bilsko]

I rode the C&O up to Point of Rocks about a month ago on my touring bike – 700cx37s – and it handled just fine. I think that for the less experienced riders you probably wouldn’t want them on anything less than 32s, but someone who knows what they’re doing would do OK on 28s.
The trail itself is in good shape, its just the constant jarring of ruts and rocks (more than muddy patches) that makes the ride tiresome. I can’t speak to the trail conditions after P.o.Rocks but I can’t imagine its much more difficult.

[eminva]

Thanks very much — all excellent advice. Much appreciated.

In answer to some questions, it will be a supported tour. We will have parent(s) driving the gear-stuffed van and meeting us at campsites, so the scouts will just have to carry what they need for the day.

Thanks for the advice on tire width/bikes. I’ll have to give this some thought. When I brought it up with my husband last night his response was that we could not have a net increase in bikes in the house, so if I have to get another bike, we have to figure out which one to get rid of. See what logic comes of having two cyclists in one teeny tiny house . . .

Liz

[acc]

Liz, I have a cross bike, you’re welcome to borrow it.

[eminva]

Hello All —

Almost eight months have passed since this thread and I wanted to give you an update. Thanks for the great advice, all of which I found useful. Here is where we are now:

We have 15 scouts, ages 11 through 16, who have been training since January, along with adults, some of whom are riding and some driving support vehicles. Since January, these scouts have done all of the following: learned basic bike maintenance, learned basic bike handling skills and how to ride in traffic and participated in 15 training rides, the longest of which was 34 miles. Most of our training rides were on the Accotink Creek Trail although some were on the W&OD. My husband is handling the considerable logistical arrangements — van support, camping, meals and other necessities.

The scouts are super enthusiastic and excited about the trip in July. They are real troupers. The scouts did not make a single peep of whining on our ride from Purcellville to Vienna yesterday — just smiles all around.

I have one more question: I have Look Keo pedals on my bike, but would recessed cleats be a better choice for the towpath? I can switch to the SPD pedals/mountain bike shoes, but I don’t know what it best, given the potential for mud and what not. Please advise.

Thanks very much.

Liz

[Dirt]

@eminva 54624 wrote:

I have one more question: I have Look Keo pedals on my bike, but would recessed cleats be a better choice for the towpath? I can switch to the SPD pedals/mountain bike shoes, but I don’t know what it best, given the potential for mud and what not. Please advise.

Depends a little on how you’re packing and what the conditions are going to be like.

The nice thing about the SPDs and MTB shoes is that they can be your primary and only shoes if you’d like them to be. You might want a set of flip-flops to give you some alternatively, but you would not be REQUIRED to use them.

As long as conditions are dry on the trip, the Looks will work fine. I’ve used road pedals on similar trips many times. The big down-side is that you pretty much have to change shoes the moment you get off the bike to be comfortable, sure-footed and to keep from wearing out the cleats. If it gets wet and muddy, the Keos will be something other than fun to use.

I hope that helps. Great to hear that the planning is going well.

[KayakCyndi]

@eminva 54624 wrote:

I have one more question: I have Look Keo pedals on my bike, but would recessed cleats be a better choice for the towpath? I can switch to the SPD pedals/mountain bike shoes, but I don’t know what it best, given the potential for mud and what not. Please advise.

Liz

I’d definitely go SPD with recessed cleats. Better in mud but perhaps more Importantly easier to walk around some of the little towns along the way while in search of either second breakfast or ice cream!

[Dirt]

@KayakCyndi 54627 wrote:

I’d definitely go SPD with recessed cleats. Better in mud but perhaps more Importantly easier to walk around some of the little towns along the way while in search of either second breakfast or ice cream!

Ice cream FOR second breakfast….

[Author]

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