close call this morning

[Dickie]

So I made the cardinal mistake this morning of becoming too relaxed about crossing an intersection when a driver waves you through…. I know I know! I generally ride on the roads and have become very strict about stopping at every light and stop sign, but on the trails I have become somewhat lazy as more drivers begin to yield to cyclists. This morning I was on the W&OD trail heading west towards the Great Falls crossing. A driver in the far lane began to slow dramatically as he approached the intersection, I also slowed to a near stop and assumed he had spotted me and was letting me through. I checked to see if drivers in the other direction were on the same page, but in this case he was the only driver on the road so I began to cross. It didn’t take long to realize he was not stopping but simply driving through the intersection at a reduced speed. I hammered the pedals, he finally noticed me and slammed on his brakes and a collision was narrowly avoided. In refection he had not waved me through at all, and I simply assumed his slowing was my cue to cross…stupid mistake. As he eventually spotted me in his path and slammed on his brakes I realized he was not looking at traffic at all, but more likely looking for an intersection or street signs, thus his slowing. he was probably not even aware a bike path crossing was present. The point is (and made numerous times here) that the “waving through” of cyclists is a slippery slope, one I gambled with today and nearly lost.

Topic

[jrenaut]

@GuyContinental 27927 wrote:

What I find really interesting about this situation is the social/psychological dimension- Lane 1 was doing something she thought was nice and despite the context I felt compelled to acknowledge her courtesy by following her cue. I actively had to resist the urge to do something incredibly stupid because I’ve been socially conditioned to respond in the affirmative to random acts of kindness.

This is why you never ever ever yield your right of way.

[pfunkallstar]

See those crossing stripes they are LAVA – avoid the LAVA, LAVA! For bonus points please to be enjoying the concept of a two-lane Helpy scenario – i.e. Parkway/Memorial crossing.

Remember, at every crossing: Consider, Reconnoiter, Approach, Panic

The tried and true CRAP technique will keep you paranoid and alive. It may also induce bowel cramping, but it is totally worth it.

[eminva]

@GuyContinental 27927 wrote:

goes on his merry melanoma way.

Awesome! See, THAT’s why I want all cyclists and joggers to wear shirts. Because I am concerned about your health. That is the only reason.

Uh, what were we talking about?

Liz

[vvill]

I dislike riding the W&OD between about Vienna and Falls Church for this reason. There’s so many of these intersections, and you can never quite tell what is going to happen. As like others, as a driver, I don’t like driving through them either. I usually go (slightly) out of my way to avoid the W&OD intersections at Little Falls and Washington on my commute home and just ride on the roads around there instead, although neither of those two are really that bad.

[KLizotte]

This is a classic case where laws are unclear and cause this kind of confusion. One the one hand, the law says the person in the crosswalk has the ROW, thus the driver slows down or stops, but on the other hand, the law says the driver has the ROW on a green light.

It gets even more confusing when there aren’t any lights at the crosswalk.

Life gets more complicated by the fact that peds typically cross against lights whenever they think it is safe and that is expected by drivers.

[krazygl00]

@GuyContinental 27927 wrote:

Dang if I didn’t have a really close one of these yesterday just hours after chatting with ya’all about it- Van Buren St in Herndon (2 lanes each way, bike specific light, usually not a big deal) For once there was plenty of traffic so came to a complete stop- oncoming traffic in lane 1 (a big SUV driven by a small lady) stops at the crosswalk and waves me on despite her ROW, I see more SUV monsters in lane 2-4 so smile, point to her green and wave her on- at which point a rider from behind me (nice bike, no helmet, no shirt, double ear-bud Fred) jets into the intersection, oblivious to SUV in ln 2, I screamed something along the lines of holysh*&hedoesn’tseeyou and Fred nearly goes down standing on his brakes as Lane 2 SUV makes an emergency stop. Fred recovers, stumbles through the intersection and goes on his merry melanoma way. Lots of honking follows- Lane 1/2 are now stopped and clearly don’t know what to do now… everyone is gesturing for me to go but lanes 3/4 aren’t clear and hell if I’m going out there. Eventually, I fully unclip put both feet on the ground, back up on the sidewalk cutout, make lots of eye contact, smile, point at the stale green and wave them through.

Wow this was some kind of Atomic Helpy Helperton Clusterf%&k!

I too had an encounter on the MVT crossing the Reagan Airport entry ramp onto GWP not long after this discussion with a Level 5 Helpy — a truly magnificent specimen — giving me the Super Mega Donkey Power Two-Handed Wave-Through (which I have never seen before).

[GuyContinental]

@krazygl00 28004 wrote:

giving me the Super Mega Donkey Power Two-Handed Wave-Through (which I have never seen before).

I hate it when Helpy gets mad at ME for being courteous and following the law… of course from their perspective, they are delivering a random act of kindness which when refused, is cheapened. No win for the cyclist- if we “expedite” the light we are scofflaws, if we don’t take the hint we are wasting their time. Of course it’s our own dang fault for being so unpredictable as a group compounded by the signal confusion of crosswalk vs light.

[bluerider]

This discussion is starting to make me laugh with all the “Helpy McHelpsalot” talk. Keep it at a Level 5!!!!!

[Dickie]

everything about this thread has made me happy, didn’t expect that from my initial post…. and that is why I love this forum.. you all rock! Gotta go make that “happy Helperton” t-shirt now!

[jnva]

Here’s a perfect example of Helpy McHelperton trying to do good, but it ends up bad.

http://vienna.patch.com/articles/cyclist-hit-by-car-near-w-od-trail

[krazygl00]

@jnva 28051 wrote:

Here’s a perfect example of Helpy McHelperton trying to do good, but it ends up bad.

http://vienna.patch.com/articles/cyclist-hit-by-car-near-w-od-trail

“A driver heading northbound on Park Street SE stopped to allow the cyclist, who did not adhere to the stop sign, to cross the street, police said.”

Yep. I would bet heavily that the unwritten context of the story is that the cyclist felt compelled by driver’s “courtesy” to proceed through the intersection without stopping.

[bobco85]

@jnva 28051 wrote:

Here’s a perfect example of Helpy McHelperton trying to do good, but it ends up bad.

http://vienna.patch.com/articles/cyclist-hit-by-car-near-w-od-trail

I think this adage from another thread really applies to this story, and it is stuck in my head to make sure not to cross unless all lanes of traffic are stopped/clear:

@pfunkallstar 27265 wrote:

“Two lanes of traffic – one of kindness, one of anger.”

[Bruce Wright]

There are two types of crossings on the W&OD Trail, those controlled by traffic lights and those controlled by stop signs, either just for cyclists or all way stop signs. At the crossings controlled by lights, the law is pretty clear. We’re supposed to only cross when the ped light is in the Walk phase (46.2-925). At the crossings controlled by stop signs for trail users, there’s a stop sign a crosswalk in the road. As bicyclists on a trail, legally we are treated as pedestrians (46.2-904) and motorists are supposed to yield to us in the crosswalk (46.2-924). When a motorist stops for me and waves me through, I appreciate it. That doesn’t mean I enter the crosswalk unless that motorist in is the lane nearest me. My mantra is “one lane at a time.” Once that first lane is controlled and the car is stopped, I can get into the crosswalk and wait for the next lane to be controlled until I’m across the street.

To me the worst situation is when I’m riding in the road and stop at a 4-way stop sign or get ready to turn left at midblock, and Helpy Helperton waves me through when I don’t have the right of way. That’s when I usually wave them through instead. If it saves time and it’s just the two of us, I sometimes will just go.

[JimK]

The town of Vienna put in ped crosswalks where the W&OD crosses both Park and Church St. About a year ago, when crossing Church, I saw two Vienna policeman on motorcycles by side of the road, near the crossing. I asked them if cyclists were supposed to be treated the same as peds at those crossings. The policemen said “good question, we don’t know”. I told them that if cyclists were supposed to be treated the same as peds the signs should say so, something like “cars must yield to peds and cyclists.” Does anyone know the answer to my question? Next time I see a Vienna policeman I will ask if they have figured it out.

[baiskeli]

@Bruce Wright 28056 wrote:

There are two types of crossings on the W&OD Trail, those controlled by traffic lights and those controlled by stop signs, either just for cyclists or all way stop signs. At the crossings controlled by lights, the law is pretty clear. We’re supposed to only cross when the ped light is in the Walk phase (46.2-925)

And, by the way, peds or bikers are not supposed to begin crossing when the light turns red during the countdown. The countdown tells you how much time you have to get across, not how much time you have to start a cross and finish it. That’s a particular problem with cyclists because we are so fast that we can usually make it all the way over during a countdown, but it’s still not technically legal, and when right on red is involved (like at Lynn and Lee) it can be unsafe too.

[Author]

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