Bike and Food Nutrition

[krazygl00]

@4st7lbs 28604 wrote:

Tis true, which is why I’m so frustrated.

No doubt, my goal is 100 miles a week but work (read: travel) and injuries keep getting in the way. Up until the weather got too much for me to handle I was doing 70 miles a week commuting to work. Starting next week I’m going to try and do at least 10 miles every day, should be able to make the 100 miles/week mark by the end of September barring injuries.

I modified the meal plan that I developed with the dietitian I worked with when I was over 450lbs and just reduced the total calories from 3,700 to 3,000 (which is also in line with LoseIt!). The problem is that even at 3,000 calories I’m pretty hungry throughout the day, especially if I bike to work (and have a banana once I cool down) or did a 25 mile ride the night before (with a banana and two stinger waffles consumed during my break). With weightlifting I don’t experience this as much (I have a Muscle Milk shake right after I lift) but that’s shorter periods of extreme exertion vs. the continuous medium impact of spinning with cycling.

I think one of the biggest issues right now is that unless I’m cycling or lifting out I don’t drink enough water during the day (~2.5L). When I do long rides I tend to drink 4-5L the day before and 6-7L the day of and drink 5-6L throughout the day and at the gym when I lift weight. If I can just get into a rhythm of drinking 6L each day, regardless of physical activity, I have a feeling the weight would start coming off. Still, I’m interested in an feedback or suggestions you all have.

I would reconsider before adding a whole bunch of Physical Activity (PA) to your regimen. If the plan is not working now, increased PA may send your hunger levels very high, and without a solid eating plan you may go into a total diet-freefall.

Has your dietitian given you info such as your base calories? For men it is roughly 12cal/lb-body-weight, which is 4800 for you. You could take in 4800 cal/day and do no PA at all and maintain your weight. So the trick is to trim calories off of both sides…reduce intake and increase output. Here is the catch: it is MUCH easier and much more effective to reduce intake. It is a classic mistake to think that “well, I can just work out like crazy” to increase pounds lost per week. In reality the numbers are against you.

Let’s take your 40 miles per week example…for your body weight I would take a guess that you’re burning around 4000 calories (being generous). Since a pound of fat is roughly 3500 calories that amounts to just over a single pound lost if you change nothing in your diet. Now let’s take your reduction in caloric intake…4800 being your base calories (per day), if you reduce to 3700 per day that leaves you with a weekly calorie deficit of 7700, which is over two pounds.

So, if you increase your mileage to 100 per week, that will vault your calories burned to 10,000 per week, so now instead of losing 1 pound per week through exercise, you’re losing 3. The problem is that this is a HUGE increase in caloric output…it is going to result in a significant increase in hunger. If you don’t have a plan to deal with that you will find yourself in trouble, and here’s why: as much effort as you’d be putting into that 10,000 calories of PA per week, you could quite easily ruin that work with 3-4 bad (high calorie) meals. Have a look at the nutritional info for any of the big restaurant chains, Chili’s, TGI Fridays, etc., just to get an idea. You may avoid those places but it should illustrate how high-calorie some meals can be. 3000-4000 meals are fairly common with these chains. Add in beer/wine, appetizer and dessert and I bet one could easily eat 5000 calories in one sitting.

With that kind of increased PA, in my experience, it will be very tough to make the right eating decisions, unless the plan and habits are already in place. And even then, for any kind of weight-loss plan I would still go moderate on the PA and focus on the food. I’ve heard an expression from bodybuilding “defined abs aren’t made in the gym, they’re made in the kitchen”.

If I were you, I would look for something more than just a one-time plan from a dietitian; I would look for a weekly recurring class that will help you stick to a plan and stay focused on the tools and strategies needed. It is not easy…your body wants to fight every step of the way. But with the right plan it becomes not-so-bad. Personally, I would look into a program called HMR; this is the program I used in 2004 and I lost 120lbs. I was losing 4.5lbs/week on average. I did the plan in Atlanta but there is not one local here; they do have phone-in programs however and I’ve also used one of those successfully.

P.S. re-reading your post, it may not be a good strategy to simply reduce the dietitian’s plan from 3700 to 3000 calories. If you did this by simply proportionally reducing the amount of food intake, then you’re going to be left very hungry because we tend to take in the same amount of food in weight daily, no matter the type of food (see Penn State researcher Barbara Rolls and the “Volumetrics” eating plan). If we tend to eat around 4lbs of food per day, we could eat 4lbs of fruits and veggies or 4lbs of sausage and achieve the same level of satiety. The strategy is to reduce caloric intake while maintaining the volume (or weight, technically) of food taken in.

[Tim Kelley]

Some good advice above.

One tip for drinking water is to always have a water bottle near you. Get into the habit of carrying it around with you all the time–into meetings, out to lunch instead of drinking soda, and even if you are just sitting around on the couch watching TV. I’ve also heard that drinking sparkling water can give you a “full” feeling due to the CO2 in it.

[jrenaut]

+1 for carrying a water bottle. I drink a ton more water when I always have the bottle within reach, and I’m much less likely to grab a soda at lunch.

[NicDiesel]

Wow, you have no idea how helpful that was to read. Seriously – THANK YOU!

I was very successful about 15 years ago working with a nutritionist each month doing exactly what you described. I managed to keep the weight I lost (~130lbs) off for eight years before it slowly, and then quickly, started coming back. When I reached my absolute nadir (~500lbs) I was just eating garbage and barely ambulatory. When I got the ok to start exercising after I got sick a few years ago I started out walking and then, after I lost about 20lbs, started using the elliptical and lifting weights to rebuild muscle that I had lost. Cycling was something I loved to do when I was thinner so when I found my old mountain bike when we moved I hoped on and haven’t looked back.

The problem now is that just counting calories (something I do obsessively) isn’t working and it’s obvious that there is no way for me to do this on my own. Forgive my naivete but isn’t “Eat to Live” based on a similar “change the type of food but keep the same food weight” methodology? Regardless, I really appreciate your feedback and will definitely search out “Volumetrics” and HMR.

[krazygl00]

@4st7lbs 28633 wrote:

Wow, you have no idea how helpful that was to read. Seriously – THANK YOU!

I was very successful about 15 years ago working with a nutritionist each month doing exactly what you described. I managed to keep the weight I lost (~130lbs) off for eight years before it slowly, and then quickly, started coming back. When I reached my absolute nadir (~500lbs) I was just eating garbage and barely ambulatory. When I got the ok to start exercising after I got sick a few years ago I started out walking and then, after I lost about 20lbs, started using the elliptical and lifting weights to rebuild muscle that I had lost. Cycling was something I loved to do when I was thinner so when I found my old mountain bike when we moved I hoped on and haven’t looked back.

The problem now is that just counting calories (something I do obsessively) isn’t working and it’s obvious that there is no way for me to do this on my own. Forgive my naivete but isn’t “Eat to Live” based on a similar “change the type of food but keep the same food weight” methodology? Regardless, I really appreciate your feedback and will definitely search out “Volumetrics” and HMR.

You’re absolutely welcome. At the risk of sounding like a salesman for HMR, I cannot recommend this program highly enough. It is a shame there is not a local office, as it is one of the few diets that isn’t hyped up with marketing. I had success earlier this year dropping ~50lbs via their phone-in meetings, but I had the benefit of going through one of their in-office programs previously when I lived in Atlanta, so I already knew what the plan was about and what to expect.

When I first started HMR, I seriously thought it was a total scam. If it hadn’t been for a friend of mine from work who had also lost a bunch of weight – the progress of which I was able to witness – using that program, I probably would have never stuck with it. Every calorie you take in for the duration of the program is purchased from HMR; it seems like a scam but this is their business model and since their program works, the profit is well-deserved. I remember thinking “if this is a scam, I am happy to be a sucker” because of its effectiveness.

The key thing with HMR is to think of it as a prescription, because that is exactly what it is. Your doctor wouldn’t want you experimenting with random antibiotics while he is treating you; likewise HMR works because they accurately track every calorie you take in. And just like a doctor, if the treatment isn’t working or isn’t working effectively enough, they can alter the treatment and change the results.

One of the first things that threw me for a loop was that with HMR is that there is no limit to the amount of food you are allowed to eat as long as that food is on the plan. I couldn’t figure this out at first, but if you put it down on paper, you would have to eat an insane amount of HMR food to keep weight on…you just couldn’t do it. The moderate (2000 cal/week) of PA you do on the plan keeps the metabolism from plummeting which is essential. What you wind up with is a very boring, predictable diet, but you also never have to be hungry (in fact one of the key strategies in the program is to remember to eat to avoid hunger). The only thing you have to give up is eating for pleasure — which really sucks. But as you step onto that scale and see losses of 3, 4, 5 pounds week after week, it makes it easier to deal with the boredom.

[RESTONTODC]

@4st7lbs 28633 wrote:

…The problem now is that just counting calories (something I do obsessively) isn’t working and it’s obvious that there is no way for me to do this on my own……

Yes, I have the same problem on counting calories as well. Since I eat out more, I can’t count them and too lazy to track it.

I follow the Tim’s recommendation on earlier post about whole foods and more lean protein. I eat less now and not hungry as much as before. I still need to work on the fruits and vegetables. They don’t taste good and expensive.

[PotomacCyclist]

I don’t know if anyone posted this before, but there are only about 150 calories in a pound of broccoli. I don’t know of many people who can successfully eat a pound of broccoli at one sitting. Adding more vegetables to a diet allows a person to eat a lot without adding a ton of calories, as others have pointed out.

In comparison, a medium-size order of french fries from McDonald’s has 380 calories. People eat those as if they are inhaling them. Fried foods are loaded with calories. It’s extremely easy to get out of control with your diet by eating fried foods and high-sugar foods (sugar-added) too often.

A good basic rule is to eat more “good” foods and less of the “bad” foods. Highly processed foods are usually bad. They contain a lot of saturated fat and added sugar and salt. Minimally processed foods like fresh fruits and vegetables are good foods. They are low in calories and contain high amounts of beneficial micronutrients. Lean protein is important, but try to avoid the fatty types like bacon (except on rare occasions) and processed meats like hot dogs. Unless you’re in the middle of a tough workout or immediately after a long or tough workout, try to avoid sugary drinks. This includes sports drinks. Casual cyclists and sedentary people should not be drinking sports drinks. Even active individuals who aren’t doing any hard workouts that day should avoid sports drinks.

Whole fruit is much better than fruit juice. So skip the fruit juice, put some real fruit on your plate and have a glass of water.

Whole grains are better than processed grains (like white bread), but those who are looking to lose weight still need to be careful even with whole grains. Grains are calorie-dense. They provide complex carbs for energy but many people can take in too many calories by eating too many grains.

Fiber and protein can help with hunger. I try to have fiber and protein at every regular meal. The only exceptions are during tough workouts and immediately after those workouts. During long workouts, I will use carb chews or gels with water. At other times, I try to avoid eating too much sugar.

Don’t forget about healthy fats. These are vital for basic health. Good sources are coldwater fish (salmon, sardines, tuna), fish oil capsules, olive oil, avocados and nuts.

Top all this off with plenty of water throughout the day. Don’t force yourself to drink a predetermined amount, but do try to drink water often.

Do you need to be perfect with your diet? No. But you should be eating a healthy diet most of the time. Save the minor splurges for social occasions (assuming you aren’t going out to lavish feasts every night of the week).

[PotomacCyclist]

@DaveK 28618 wrote:

When I was really into losing weight I was eating below 2,000 calories a day, sometimes below 1,600. It comes off fast, but I was hungry all the time and resorted to tricks like drinking gallons of water and eating soup at every meal. Don’t do this. It sounds like you’ve done it right and developed a healthy plan and calorie level for you.

Cycling in and of itself isn’t the best exercise for weight loss unless you can really devote a lot of time to it. Even a 40-mile ride might burn you 3,000 calories at your size, aka not quite a pound, and I’m estimating on the very high end. If you feel like you’re healthy enough and your body can handle it, I would recommend running. The Couch-to-5k program worked for a lot of my friends – check it out for a great intro-to-running program. I promise you no single activity will melt weight off you like running. I’ve been where you are and lost a lot of weight with running as my only activity. I got started just walking the dogs every evening and it turned into a nightly 30-minute run. Running is easy to fit into your day – take a half hour or an hour or whatever you have and just run around the neighborhood. Can even do it at lunch if you’ve got showers at work.

If you don’t think you are ready for the impact of running on your joints or body, swimming is also a great exercise that has virtually no impact.

One little thing I’d suggest – Muscle Milk is kinda junk. Buy your own whey protein powder for post-workout shakes and mix it with milk. Higher protein content with less crap in it.

Cyclists should try to include some weight-bearing cross-training to supplement their cycling. Some studies have shown high-volume cyclists (professional riders) to have lower bone mineral density than the average adult (which includes all the sedentary people out there). Running and/or strength training are good ways to develop better bone strength. Running helps with the legs and hips, but not as much with the upper body.

Even non-triathletes should try to do a little bit of running. Running can be hard on the legs at first. It’s not easy to get started, especially if you are older and/or sedentary. But it does get easier over time. The key is to take it easy when you start out. Small steps at first, meaning don’t do too much, too soon.

As for Muscle Milk, the only time I’ve ever had it is when they give it away after 5K run races. 10 minutes later, after drinking a bottle, my stomach always starts grumbling. Probably why I’ve never bought a bottle on my own. I also plan to skip those complementary bottles at future races. I don’t know if it’s that bad but the combination of the sugar and the protein in a liquid form just doesn’t sit well with my stomach.

[Tim Kelley]

@PotomacCyclist 28660 wrote:

Lean protein is important, but try to avoid the fatty types like bacon (except on rare occasions) and processed meats like hot dogs.

Lots of great general diet tips here, but I’m curious what your basis is for avoiding fatty proteins? It’s just a dense supply of energy, right?

My take on things is that as long as you don’t go overboard and can burn the calories then you don’t need to worry about it. It also takes longer for your body to break it down and turn it into energy. Plus, bacon it’s delicious.

Or is that all just broscience?

[krazygl00]

@Tim Kelley 28663 wrote:

Lots of great general diet tips here, but I’m curious what your basis is for avoiding fatty proteins? It’s just a dense supply of energy, right?

My take on things is that as long as you don’t go overboard and can burn the calories then you don’t need to worry about it. It also takes longer for your body to break it down and turn it into energy. Plus, bacon it’s delicious.

Or is that all just broscience?

If you put any credit into “Volumetrics” (which I do) then dense energy supplies are exactly what you want to avoid if weight loss is the goal. Energy Density is actually one of the terms used in Volumetrics, expressed as calories/gram. Foods with a low energy density include fruits and vegetables, broth-based soups, etc. and are optimal for weight loss.

So it’s not that there is something magical about the calories in fatty proteins, it is that it is very easy to take in too many. And for most people who need to watch their weight, “going overboard” is a treacherous slope.

[PotomacCyclist]

All the saturated fat. In addition, foods like hot dogs are primarily fat, even though some people may see them as protein sources. They are more like fat sticks with a little bit of protein.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sausages-and-luncheon-meats/1338/2

Similar nutrition profile for bacon:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/pork-products/7676/2

Almost all of the calories are from fat. The occasional slice of bacon won’t destroy a healthy diet. But too much can cause problems for those looking to control their weight.

[Tim Kelley]

@krazygl00 28666 wrote:

If you put any credit into “Volumetrics” (which I do) then dense energy supplies are exactly what you want to avoid if weight loss is the goal. Energy Density is actually one of the terms used in Volumetrics, expressed as calories/gram. Foods with a low energy density include fruits and vegetables, broth-based soups, etc. and are optimal for weight loss.

So it’s not that there is something magical about the calories in fatty proteins, it is that it is very easy to take in too many. And for most people who need to watch their weight, “going overboard” is a treacherous slope.

Agreed–calories are calories right? Either burn them or they get turned into fat.

[Tim Kelley]

@PotomacCyclist 28667 wrote:

All the saturated fat. In addition, foods like hot dogs are primarily fat, even though some people may see them as protein sources. They are more like fat sticks with a little bit of protein.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sausages-and-luncheon-meats/1338/2

Similar nutrition profile for bacon:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/pork-products/7676/2

Almost all of the calories are from fat. The occasional slice of bacon won’t destroy a healthy diet. But too much can cause problems for those looking to control their weight.

Okay, please elaborate–what’s wrong with calories coming from fat?

Like I said above, if you can burn it then you don’t need to worry about it, right?

[PotomacCyclist]

Depends on the individual. But if you are relying on those sources for protein, you will be consuming large amounts of saturated fat. Most health researchers recommend everyone to limit their consumption of saturated fat.

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/saturatedfat.html

A high-volume athlete can get away with a bit more. But it’s still not a good habit to have, to be used to consuming high quantities of saturated fats. Even many pro athletes struggle with diet after their playing days are over, because they are so used to being able to eat what they want and not having to think too carefully about what they eat.

Another problem with highly processed meats like bacon and sausage is the sodium nitrate used as a preservative.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium-nitrate/AN02119/

While not all of the research is conclusive, it does tend to show problems when consuming too much saturated fat and too many preservatives. In general, it’s a good idea to limit the intake of preservatives and artificial chemicals.

Going back to the saturated fat issue, it’s wise to be more careful with high-fat foods because of the high calorie content and the high percentage of fat and fat calories. Some fat is necessary but most of it should be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fat (fish, nuts, avocados, olive oil, etc.). Again, a high-volume training athlete has more leeway, but it’s still not a good idea to eat large quantities of bacon and hot dogs day after day. Whereas with vegetables, it’s really difficult to overdo it on the calories. People need to pay more close attention to when they eat high-fat foods and how much. Such foods are popular and a part of the traditional U.S. culture. Combine that with a sedentary lifestyle or just occasional casual bike rides, and you have a recipe for obesity and all the related health concerns.

[PotomacCyclist]

There is also the issue of cholesterol levels.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/PreventionTreatmentofHighCholesterol/Common-Misconceptions-about-Cholesterol_UCM_305638_Article.jsp

From the American Heart Association:

Any type of body can have high cholesterol. Overweight people are more likely to have high cholesterol, but thin people should also have their cholesterol checked regularly. Often people who don’t gain weight easily are less aware of how much saturated and trans fat they eat. Nobody can “eat anything they want” and stay heart healthy. Have your cholesterol checked regularly regardless of your weight, physical activity and diet. Learn more about what you can do to manage your cholesterol levels.

NOTE: I admit to not being diligent about having my cholesterol checked regularly. But I stay very active and I try to eat a healthy diet most of the time (with a brief slip-up last holiday season when I ate a little too much candy).

***
On the other hand, I read conflicting reports about eggs. Some studies show that the cholesterol in eggs do not have the same effect on the body as other cholesterol sources, but more research needs to be done. The usual recommendation is that most people can include a moderate amount of eggs (including the egg yolks) in a healthy diet. But people with pre-existing cholesterol problems should take care.

Eggs are one of the best protein sources because the protein is more bioavailable. (Milk is the other top-level protein source, but many people are lactose intolerant. Lactaid is an option for them, but not a perfect one. Yogurt is another possibility.)

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