Bike accident at Glebe & Fairfax?

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 50927 wrote:

Those pedestrians “waiting” to cross Fairfax while South to Westbound right turning cars are trying to mow them down when there is a left turn arrow from westbound Fairfax to SB Glebe are facing a don’t walk sign. Sorry, I don’t see why cars can’t turn right on red in this situation if the pedestrians are not illegally in the crosswalk.

Then please reread the text you quoted. The problem is that you end up with a constant stream of cars turning right at 10+MPH that never stops when the pedestrians get the walk signal. If motorists weren’t asshats and instead deferred to pedestrians crossing legally, then we wouldn’t need the sign. But that’s not the world we live in.

[dasgeh]

@mstone 50931 wrote:

Then please reread the text you quoted. The problem is that you end up with a constant stream of cars turning right at 10+MPH that never stops when the pedestrians get the walk signal. If motorists weren’t asshats and instead deferred to pedestrians crossing legally, then we wouldn’t need the sign. But that’s not the world we live in.

I don’t know this intersection, but am familiar with the signs and this problem in general. The root of the problem is that drivers don’t follow laws that aren’t enforced, including stop at the red before right-on-red, legal or not. I see this as two separate problems: (1) what’s the best set up (combo of infrastructure and rules for using it) to move people (in and out of cars) in an efficient manner; and (2) how do we make people (in and out of cars) abide by the set up.

I believe there are places where, based on the number of people using the crosswalk and the number of people in cars turning, etc, the best policy really is to allow right turns when a car going straight has red. The problem is getting the cars to do that safely. We have tried rules in the books (stop before you turn, yield to peds in crosswalks) and without enforcement, that doesn’t seem to work. We have tried signs telling people the rules and without enforcement, that doesn’t seem to work. At some intersections, we’ve tried fancy signalling. Sometimes that works. We’ve tried infrastructure options (e.g. curb bump outs that make it difficult for a car to make the right without going very slowly), which sometime work.

What annoys me is that in all this talk of signs, rules, signals and infrastructure, I find little discussion of enforcement. If police would actually ticket people for failing to come to a full stop behind the stop line (much easier to define and harder to debate than “is the ped in the crosswalk/”present”), we might not need to go to fancy signalling or physical infrastructure changes.

Sigh.

[DismalScientist]

@mstone 50931 wrote:

Then please reread the text you quoted. The problem is that you end up with a constant stream of cars turning right at 10+MPH that never stops when the pedestrians get the walk signal. If motorists weren’t asshats and instead deferred to pedestrians crossing legally, then we wouldn’t need the sign. But that’s not the world we live in.

The next part of the cycle has a green on both east and westbound Fairfax. Then, the pedestrians still face a don’t walk sign.

[baiskeli]

@GuyContinental 50897 wrote:

PLEASE don’t run the arrow at this intersection! I see it every time I go through in the afternoon (EB) and have witnessed several close calls- WB riders run the crossing when it appears that there are no EB left turning cars. SB, right turning (onto 66), Glebe drivers really aren’t expecting a bike (why would they, it’s a RED light on a MAJOR 4-lane intersection). With the new traffic pattern people are confused enough, wait the extra 15 seconds for your ROW.

(Also goes for WOD at Lee/Washington)

I second that emotion. I see both bikes and pedestrians do that at that intersection routinely, on both sides.

[baiskeli]

@GuyContinental 50918 wrote:

I’m not exactly a relaxed rider in general, but I’ve channeled my inner Dirt and become very zen about afternoons on the WOD. Maple, Gallows, Washington/Fairfax and lights the length of Fairfax blvd in Arlington all get to run their full cycle before I’ll cross. The lack of angst is sort of liberating.

Yep. Just relax, enjoy the rest, take a drink, talk to the guy on the park bench. You’re in no hurry.

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