Bad LBS culture or just no understanding of business?

[krazygl00]

@TwoWheelsDC 33816 wrote:

I’ve definitely experienced the same things you have when purchasing a bike…LBS workers all too often aren’t particularly well-adapted to working with the less “bikey” types that have started flooding shops as cycling has gained in popularity. In that way, I actually empathize with them, since they have to deal with a lot of customers who aren’t particularly well-informed about what they’re shopping for (that’s not meant as a knock or anything) and may not fully understand the differences between the products at the LBS and those at Target…after all, Target sells the same food/toiletries/clothes/whatever as any other store, so why would your average bike shopper think that bikes would be any different?

To put it another way, think of a car dealership. Most car buyers don’t have much in-depth knowledge of cars, but they generally know what kind of car will suit their needs. Most buyers these days also know that the days of “lemons” are largely gone, and the primary difference between a $15,000 Fiat and $35,000 Inifinti is amenities, luxury appointments, and brand cache. But from a practical perspective, any new car will get you from point A to point B reliably regardless of price, so people can just buy whatever car is in their price/need range and not worry about the details. Electronics are the same way. In the bike world, however, this is most definitely not true and the big price differences between big box bikes and LBS bikes are generally indicative of major differences in quality/reliability, so consumers in the bike world need to be much more educated about their purchases and have a better idea of what their money will get them.

All this is not to excuse bike shops’ poor customer service, but I think buyers will have much better experiences if they go into it with a little more preparation than most other purchases. Bike shops need to meet customers halfway here as well and, like you said, build trust with their customers…particularly those that are new to cycling.

I certainly encourage you to hold the LBSs to account for their lackluster customer service, but I’d also recommend against being too much of a blank slate when going into an LBS…rather than relying on them to tell you what they think you need, try to go in with specific criteria and let them show you what they have that fits into it. And if you decide to just upgrade, be very upfront with them about your intentions and again, be very specific about what you want. It’s going to take some work on your part, but I think you’ll find you have a much better experience that way.

I think this post is pretty much on the money. The OP’s situation is not unique; in fact it is extremely common, and the sales guys at bike shops – who are very often at entry-level or part-time positions – have to do the same education of the customers over and over again, every day.

I gather that the OP’s primary complaint was not with what he was being told, but the manner in which it was communicated. This is a very fair assessment, but keep in mind that to the sales guy, this was more “Ok, I get asked the same thing a hundred times a day. Let me help you cut to the chase and tell you X, Y and Z”

[jopamora]

You can also work on your own bike at The Bike House clinics

[KLizotte]

To the OP, keep in mind that if you truly are planning on buying another bike in 3-4 months you will be in the dead of winter and that is not the best time of the year to be trying out new bikes (though I bought my first bike on January 2). On the plus side, the LBSs are really slow then so you get a lot of attention; the down side is the inventory tends to be a little on the low side and you may not be able to take out your new shiny toy much for a couple of months if we get a snowy winter (though if you go with an MTB this may not be much of an issue).

Some other random thoughts: REI will let you return a used bike at any time if you decide you don’t like it. One of the LBS chains in DC will take back a bike within the first 30 days (unfortunately I don’t recall the name of the store but their website states their return policy). I’m not advocating that you purposely plan on only using a bike for a month or two then returning it, only that these generous return policies (esp REI’s) make life much easier for newbies if they make a mistake.

A properly fitted road bike can be very comfortable, esp if you use a riser stem so you aren’t leaning over so much. The difficulty is getting a proper fit; I highly advise all newbies to pay for a professional fitting – it will save you much money and aggravation in the long run.

While the weather is still nice, try renting different kinds of bikes for a few hours. This will help you get a feel for the different varieties out there as well as what may feel uncomfortable after a few hours in the saddle.

In terms of spending money, the priorities should be:

1) safety – always #1
2) comfort – you won’t ride if you’re hurting
3) fun and utility
4) bling – we all like shiny new things, some more so than others

If you have time, check out some of the very casual organized bike rides in the area (you and your wife could do the Saturday Cupcake Ramble sponsored by BicycleSpace). They are fun, low key and will give you a chance to see if you will be wanting to do a lot of organized rides and at what level (they range from very slow to super fast). The type of riding you want to do in 2-3 years will largely dictate the kind of bike you buy now (upright hybrid, MTB, road, etc).

One of the bikeshops in DC will allow you to take one of their new bikes out for an organized group ride. A freebie 1-2 hour ride! I don’t recall which shop it is but it says this on their website.

Lastly, if you are visiting LBSs on a weekend between May and November, you will not get a whole lot of attention or advice from whomever you are talking to (even if you are looking to spend $2K+ on a bike). They are all simply swamped with customers. Dead of winter is much quieter in the sales department (still busy in the service dept).

Bike shops make their profits on accessories and bikes. The service dept does not make them any money.

In an ideal world, one would book an appt with a fully qualified/trained sales person and pay for their time (like one does for a professional fitting). This would be fair to both parties and lessen the incentive for a saleperson to push a sale when it is unwarranted.

At the end of the day it comes down to patience, perseverence and education. It is a continual learning process because biking combines elements of sport, transportation, technology, mechanics, health, and even law.*

*All that said, I must confess I rode a steel touring bike for 15 years without knowing how to change a flat tire (never got one while riding! never carried a spare), that one is supposed to clean and lube the chain every once in a while, that chains “stretch”, that wheels go out of true, or that one should wear gloves. Pannier? Isn’t that some kind of indian cheese? My lights were definitely pathetic but I didn’t ride at night – you can do that?! Oh, and I had platform pedals; I thought shoes that attached to the pedals were only for professional riders (plus the concept seemed really, really scary).

I didn’t know how to safely ride in urban traffic (fortunately I lived in a rural area), and I’m pretty sure I didn’t fully grasp how the whole gearing system worked (I had suicide levers and just moved them around till it felt right). With that much ignorance, but blessed with a damn good bike (made in Belgium, wish I could remember the brand name), I very happily pedaled many thousands of miles with only a few minor bumps and bruises (all my fault). Remarkably the bike only required a few tune ups and to my now undying horror: tube changes at the LBS (I thought it was normal to ask an LBS to do that – I would bring the bike in after the winter hiatus because they wouldn’t inflate – stop laughing!).

All that is to say, if you are safe and having fun, who cares what anyone else says or thinks?! Sometimes we over analyze things. I think it’s goofy to spend good time and money trying to hit a tiny ball into a hole; similarly, I’m sure the golfers at Hain’s Pt think we are all insane for circling the golf course (in lycra!) for hours. Too each his or her own…

[TwoWheelsDC]

One of my other hobbies is photography, which from a gear perspective is actually incredibly similar to cycling. There’s a whole range of product quality and prices. There’s low end equipment, mid-range equipment (generally where you’d say it’s “good quality”) and high end stuff. Like in cycling, beginners tend to balk at the price of mid-range equipment and assume low-end equipment will suit their needs because they’re beginners…but it doesn’t really work that way, unfortunately. So people buy low-end gear, take some crappy photos, then give up because their photos suck…yes, some of it is skill, but crappy gear will exacerbate problems stemming from a lack of skill.

I don’t want to belabor the analogy further, but the maxim on which I base my buying decisions is “buy cheap, buy twice.” Better to spend more money upfront on a higher quality product, than buy cheap, discover the product doesn’t meet your needs, then have to go back and buy the higher quality product.

All that said, it’s your money, so spend it how you want…as long as you’re happy with your bike, that’s all that really matters.

[baiskeli]

@khanb1 33830 wrote:

Here’s what I spent:

• $130 Tune Up + Road Friendly Tires (first LBS kinda wined about my bike)
• $60 Comfortable saddle (something I can take with me to another bike)
• $45 Real wheel truing (2nd LBS wined about my bike)
• $15 new rear brake pads
• $25 tool kit (will use regardless of bike)
• $60 padded bike shorts + windbreaker (will use regardless of bike)

That totals: $335

Well, a tune up may not last long on a cheap bike. The components may not be designed to last long, or to hold their adjustment for long. You may need another tuneup soon, or have something go wrong while you’re out riding, which can really suck if you’re miles from home and/or a bike shop and can’t fix it yourself. (Of course, whatever the bike, you should be prepared to do minor adjustments and fixes yourself, on the road, anyway).

Same goes for truing – a cheaper wheel may go out of true more often, or break spokes, which can really ruin your day, and maybe the entire wheel.

So it’s all about how much riding you plan to do and how far. Sounds like you’ll be okay on this bike, but if you find it is holding you back, you might consider upgrading.

Of course, the kit, shorts, jacket and saddle can all go with any bike, so those don’t count against you anyway. Brake pads are normal wear and tear on any bike, so those aren’t upgrades, just maintenance.

[baiskeli]

@KLizotte 33848 wrote:

To the OP, keep in mind that if you truly are planning on buying another bike in 3-4 months you will be in the dead of winter and that is not the best time of the year to be trying out new bikes

It can be a good time to get good deals though.

[mstone]

Saddle choice is highly dependent on type of bike and level of experience, so also not necessarily a long-term investment.

[Greenbelt]

One thing I’ve learned the hard way (get it?) is that saddles wear out, even if they don’t look it. New saddle comfy nice.

[mstone]

@Greenbelt 33878 wrote:

One thing I’ve learned the hard way (get it?) is that saddles wear out, even if they don’t look it. New saddle comfy nice.

Leather just improves

[ShawnoftheDread]

@khanb1 33830 wrote:

I’m also considering maybe upgrading the chain ring (go from 42t to 50t large ring) and crank (go from 165mm to 175mm). It may cost an additional $100 to purchase online and install locally.
[/LIST]

In my opinion, this is where you would be wasting your money. The other expenses are fine for extending the life of your bike and getting it ready to ride regularly, but making major changes like new cranks and/or chainrings wouldn’t be worth it. You’d be better off putting that $100 aside and getting your upgrade bike that much sooner.

[Author]

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