Assaulted on MVT — looking for witnesses

[mstone]

@cdjewell 138130 wrote:

While it wouldn’t surprise me that passersby would ignore two guys going at each other, I am surprised and disappointed that they could ignore a kid on the ground, strapped in his bike seat.

I would not expect someone looking at people fighting by the trail to see a kid strapped into a seat on a bike on the ground. It’s too unexpected for the brain to notice with attention focused on an immediate danger.

[bobco85]

@cdjewell, I’m writing this in consideration of all the details of the story described in this thread, and I hope that I am being fair in this assessment.

Regarding the Memorial Bridge tunnel: I would say it’s an unspoken rule to stop and wait if you see someone else proceeding through the tunnel, but remember that not everyone knows this. In your situation, were you right behind the jogger or were you a little farther away? I can see the other cyclist seeing you go through, further delaying him, thinking, “This stream of people is never going to stop. I should just go through anyways.” The comment about keeping single file (again, unspoken rule that not everyone knows about and something that he disagreed with as he later said he thought it was his turn to enter) probably set him off. Reaching out and trying to push you/your bike is an immature and dangerous response; he should be reported for that.

Onto the assault: so after this incident in the tunnel, you turned around and chased after him “busting a gut” to have a word with him. Upon catching up to him, you both argued with each other while you kept following him on a trail that has no exits/alternative routes in that section. That could be considered an aggressive act on your part. Then, he apparently got tired of the situation (considering his earlier actions, patience does not seem to be a quality he possesses), stopped, and proceeded to push your bike out from under you which ended up injuring your child. While I don’t know if he knew your child was there, it is assault. Then, you both started fighting (crime of disorderly conduct). At some point, you both stopped fighting and parted ways.

So, in summary, the storyline goes: the other cyclist was the guilty actor, you were the guilty reactor, and your child was the innocent victim. I appreciate you telling your side of the story and will try to keep a watch out for that other cyclist, but I hope that you take the time to understand the situation that we are riding around less knowledgeable/experienced people and get better control of your anger before heading back to the trails.

[cdjewell]

Mostly accurate summary. I want to say that I could have done a d*ck maneuver and entered the tunnel just ahead of the jogger, but slowed to follow. I’ve been riding the MVT to work for almost 10 years. It’s been my observation that everybody plays “follow the leader” if bikes and joggers have entered the tunnel going in your direction. If my assailant didn’t see my son when he originally stuck out his arm, he should have seen him as he passed and shoved. And he definitely would have seen him when we were pulled over. Not as much fighting as you describe after my bike (and son) were knocked to the ground. My sunglasses and helmet visor ended up on the ground, and the bridge of my nose was a little bruised so he got one swing in. I grabbed his handlebar (trying to bring his bike down) but never actually touched him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[creadinger]

@cdjewell 138155 wrote:

Experienced trail users treat the narrow stretch under the Memorial Bridge as a single file situation. I was behind a jogger that had entered the tunnel first. Not only did he not wait for me to get through, he entered even before the jogger exited. As we were about to squeeze by each other, I told him something like “Single file, dude.” He stretched out his left arm and tried to hit/push me as we passed one another. During our argument after I had turned around and caught up to him, he insisted it was his turn to enter the tunnel.

Given that it precipitated this incident, can I also say that I think it’s ridiculous that one of the busiest trails in the region has a one-lane section for only single file traffic. I’m disappointed (but not at all surprised) that this hasn’t been remedied. NPS has much bigger issues and no budget to deal with them.

The only road analogy in the area I can think of is the bridge on MacArthur Blvd, which is also surprising. I would guess though that that one-lane bridge is self inflicted, intended to keep through traffic from using the area as much.

[baiskeli]

I’m with Bobco. This doesn’t sound like a great experience for your son, and could have been much, much worse from injury due to a fall and/or injury from the guy you were fighting. When you have a kid involved, you have to suck up your pride and take abuse sometimes. Not worth the risk.

[BobRoderiguez]

For the original poster, yes, your wife is gonna be mad. But your son may be really proud of you sometime and remember when his dad threw down with some %$^%%$ and ran him off.

You have to keep standards, and if everyone lets Mr Bike Wanker be the anti-social guy then he’s not gonna learn. Yes the fight may have been a draw (spend some time in the gym learning how to box maybe), but Mr Bike Wanker may think twice next time. You may have saved someone from an accident.

Just sayin’.

[Judd]

@BobRoderiguez 138604 wrote:

You have to keep standards, and if everyone lets Mr Bike Wanker be the anti-social guy then he’s not gonna learn. Yes the fight may have been a draw (spend some time in the gym learning how to box maybe), but Mr Bike Wanker may think twice next time. You may have saved someone from an accident.

Just sayin’.

My experience has been that when someone is a dick and you respond by being a dick back that Dick-1 doesn’t then see the error of their ways.

My reading of this exchange is:

Dick-1: performed a moderately ducking move by not waiting for the tunnel to clear. May have been unaware of the social norm. May have viewed the social norm that the sides should trade off and that after the runner cleared it was his turn.
Dick-2: made a moderately dickish comment to Dick-1 about violating a social norm.
Dick-1: Made an unacceptable Dick move by assaulting a guy in a bike by pushing him. Extra dick points awarded if he was aware a child was on the back of the bike.
Dick-2: made an even more unacceptable dick move by chasing down Dick-1 with his child in the back of the bike and initiating a physical altercation.
Dick-1: pulls a karate kid dick move by doing the old Sweep the Leg, Johnny on Dick-2s bike with a kid on the back.
Dick-2: comes to an Internet forum looking for sympathy for being a dick and witnesses so that he can report Dick-1 for a crime while diminishing his own dick move assault.

My point is that people are sometimes dicks on the trail either intentionally or unintentionally. Being a dick in return very seldom results in a good outcome. Let’s all try to be forgiving out there when someone is a dick or makes a mistake.

[AFHokie]

Judd, you haven’t by chance watched Team America recently?

[baiskeli]

@BobRoderiguez 138604 wrote:

For the original poster, yes, your wife is gonna be mad. But your son may be really proud of you sometime and remember when his dad threw down with some %$^%%$ and ran him off.

I don’t see a dad starting a physical fight with someone as being something to be proud of, nor a good thing to learn. Confronting someone for rude behavior is a good example, perhaps. If the other guy started the physical fight out of nowhere, maybe. But overall it sounds like a small dispute turned into a fight, and that’s never a good example.

[Judd]

@baiskeli 138737 wrote:

I don’t see a dad starting a physical fight with someone as being something to be proud of, nor a good thing to learn. Confronting someone for rude behavior is a good example, perhaps. If the other guy started the physical fight out of nowhere, maybe. But overall it sounds like a small dispute turned into a fight, and that’s never a good example.

I disagree. Some day that kid is going be so proud that his dad got in a slap fight that resulted in a draw. /sarcasm

I know I’m being a huge dick, but children are innocents and doing something that unnecessarily places a child in danger is never acceptable.

[huskerdont]

Get yourself killed = okay.

Get yourself killed in front of your kid okay.

Getting your kid killed is right out.

IMO.

[MFC]

@baiskeli 138737 wrote:

I don’t see a dad starting a physical fight with someone as being something to be proud of, nor a good thing to learn. Confronting someone for rude behavior is a good example, perhaps. If the other guy started the physical fight out of nowhere, maybe. But overall it sounds like a small dispute turned into a fight, and that’s never a good example.

Did he let his kid out of the seat? I have a mental image of some kid in a bike seat lying sideways on the ground while his father dukes it out with some other dude.

[Sunyata]

@MFC 138745 wrote:

Did he let his kid out of the seat? I have a mental image of some kid in a bike seat lying sideways on the ground while his father dukes it out with some other dude.

I am pretty sure that is exactly what happened. 😡

[KLizotte]

When I was young my father would fly into a rage if someone cut him off while driving and chase the offender down; this usually led to a screaming match in the middle of the street. It scared the hell out of me and my mom because 1) we didn’t know how the offender would react, and 2) we had to witness my dad out of control. I lost respect for my dad because he lost his cool and put us in danger.

I don’t know how we go about stopping dick moves by idiots, but losing control is surely not it. Remember, it’s an eye for an eye, not an eye for an eyelash.

Just my two cents.

[Terpfan]

I once called someone out (this was a few years ago) for not calling his pass near the 14th St Bridge. Dude flat out does a skid stop and then asks if I want to fight. The answer for me was something like ‘no, on my way to work, just want you to call passes so I don’t get hit.’ Maybe the same guy is still around. Seemed to have some anger issues. Alas, with what a million plus users a year, I guess the MVT is due to have a few bad apples.

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