Article: "Safe Bicycling Is A Matter Of Bicycling, Not Clothing"
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- This topic has 56 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 8 months ago by
Vicegrip.
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August 23, 2016 at 1:13 am #1057837
jrenaut
Participant@scorchedearth 144727 wrote:
I saw a couple salmoning on M St NW at Connecticut not in the bike lane a while back wearing their helmets. Somehow, I don’t think that their headgear made them any safer.
Very true, but this is egregiously stupid behavior. No amount of infrastructure or traffic enforcement can make this safe.
August 23, 2016 at 2:38 am #1057839vern
ParticipantI never used to wear a helmet…didn’t even own one. I wore a bandana around my head to catch the sweat, but that’s it. Then one night, about 25 years ago, i was watching velodrome races on ESPN. On the final lap of one of the races, the cyclists made contact just after the final turn, and one rider went down. He slid about 50 yards down the track, his head bouncing off the track like a basketball, pieces of helmet flying off with each bounce. And then he stopped sliding, the pieces of helmet stopped breaking off (there wasn’t much helmet left), and he stood up and walked away. I got queasy watching this. And, of course, this being television, ESPN replayed this over and over, and my stomach got queasier and queasier, and I thought about how cool I looked in that bandana when I rode my bike.
The next day I went to a bike shop and bought a helmet – a Bell – and I’ve worn a helmet ever since.
August 23, 2016 at 1:16 pm #1057844chris_s
ParticipantAs humans we’re terrible at assessing risk and our statisticians and scientists are not doing a great job of giving us the tools we need to make informed decisions. Do helmets prevent some injuries and make others less severe? Definitely. Do they also cause injuries, due to factors like adding additional stress to the neck during a slide? Possibly. Do they encourage risky riding behavior? Yep, that’s called risk compensation. Do helmets discourage people from riding leading to a more sedentary lifestyle that causes other health problems? Almost certainly. On the whole then, should you wear a helmet? I have no damn idea, but I feel pretty strongly that none of us should feel sufficiently certain in our decision to criticize anyone else’s decision.
August 23, 2016 at 1:17 pm #1057845dasgeh
Participant@jrenaut 144728 wrote:
Very true, but this is egregiously stupid behavior. No amount of infrastructure or traffic enforcement can make this safe.
Maybe. But maybe they just didn’t realize that it was one-way, and that there was an option that went the way they wanted to travel. Proper signage could address that.
August 23, 2016 at 1:18 pm #1057846dasgeh
Participant@chris_s 144736 wrote:
As humans we’re terrible at assessing risk and our statisticians and scientists are not doing a great job of giving us the tools we need to make informed decisions. Do helmets prevent some injuries and make others less severe? Definitely. Do they also cause injuries, due to factors like adding additional stress to the neck during a slide? Possibly. Do they encourage risky riding behavior? Yep, that’s called risk compensation. Do helmets discourage people from riding leading to a more sedentary lifestyle that causes other health problems? Almost certainly. On the whole then, should you wear a helmet? I have no damn idea, but I feel pretty strongly that none of us should feel sufficiently certain in our decision to criticize anyone else’s decision.
I would also add: would wearing a helmet reduce/prevent injuries in other situations, like riding in a car or walking? Definitely.
August 23, 2016 at 1:19 pm #1057847Tim Kelley
ParticipantTwo words: Shin Guards.
August 23, 2016 at 1:22 pm #1057848dasgeh
Participant@Tim Kelley 144739 wrote:
Two words: Shin Guards.
Or, based on your experience this weekend, shoulder pads?
August 23, 2016 at 1:24 pm #1057849Tim Kelley
Participant@dasgeh 144740 wrote:
Or, based on your experience this weekend, shoulder pads?
The best defense is a good offense.
August 23, 2016 at 1:25 pm #1057850chris_s
Participant@dasgeh 144738 wrote:
I would also add: would wearing a helmet reduce/prevent injuries in other situations, like riding in a car or walking? Definitely.
Indeed. NASCAR drivers wear helmets.
August 23, 2016 at 1:56 pm #1057851Vicegrip
ParticipantSafety thoughts from someone not trained in cycling safety, educated in safety stats or a 20 year experienced rider.
In a cycling fall I know I am far more likely to get a square foot of road rash, a busted wrist or broken clavicle that a busted head. But….. A busted wrist or collar bone will heal up or not but a busted brain not so much. I understand the risks taken when cycling and mitigate risk where it is most feasible to do so. Puttering along on a Cabi a helmet adds little and zinging along on a road bike it takes little away. Helmets are not Yes or No they are As Needed where needed as desired.
Stupid is as stupid does. Riding stupid increases the chance of getting hit by a car. Riding smart both when and where helps lower the chance of getting hit. Even the best well trained in the craft of cycling and road awareness lets their guard down now and then so the chance is never 0. Getting hit by a car is a risk that personal safety equipment likely does not help with % wise. Again heads don’t heal as well as the simple stuff and I can live with a bum wrist more than I can deal with a damaged brain. So, helmet goes on as it offers some slight measure of improved safety to a critical part of me with little noted down side for the kind of riding I do.
The stuff in the helmet is the real safety equipment. Brain, eyes and ears all working together to adjust to the conditions and locations. On a MUP I am more likely to take a spill from a bad pass, crazy Ivan, loose dog, or a host of other human to human on bike type interactions but no risk of the more catastrophic human to car event. (Elfs and Oops drivers aside)
August 23, 2016 at 2:04 pm #1057852Vicegrip
Participant@dasgeh 144738 wrote:
I would also add: would wearing a helmet reduce/prevent injuries in other situations, like riding in a car or walking? Definitely.
Perhaps not. The helmet while walking might disturb balance or reduce hearing and vision enough to make a fall more likely. In a street car, in street conditions, a helmet just might increase the chance of an accident in the first place. Head impact injuries would be the only added safety factor but increased number of events and increased likelihood of other forms on injury would at a minimum cancel whatever slight change the helmet offers.
@chris_s 144742 wrote:
Indeed. NASCAR drivers wear helmets.
They also are in full containment seats with 6 point retention systems that work to keep the added weight of the helmet from causing injury to your brain and neck by yanking your head around. The added weight of a helmet is a significant added risk in a high gee force accident. a 30 mph impact can cause you body to see over 30 Gs of force.
August 23, 2016 at 2:07 pm #1057853Tim Kelley
Participant@Vicegrip 144744 wrote:
In a street car in street conditions a helmet just might increase the chance of an accident in the first place.
What about wearing a bike helment while driving? What about a football helment?
August 23, 2016 at 2:15 pm #1057854Vicegrip
Participant@Tim Kelley 144745 wrote:
What about wearing a bike helmet while driving? What about a football helment?
How often do we see head injuries in car wrecks? That % number is the foundation of what you can work with to reduce. For the most part air bags, side air curtains and modern 3 point belts with tensioners have significantly reduced head to hard stuff impact. Considering the g forces and energy levels seen is car wrecks a bike helmet or football helmet will likely underperform when in a car without modern systems or when the human forgoes seatbelts. A bike helmet is intended to absorb a single impact of a set amount of energy.
If there is no downside you can always use Pascal logic. The problem is figuring out the level of downside.
August 23, 2016 at 2:31 pm #1057856lordofthemark
Participant@Vicegrip 144744 wrote:
Perhaps not. The helmet while walking might disturb balance or reduce hearing and vision enough to make a fall more likely.
Uh oh – I sometimes walk in my bike helmet when there is no convenient place to put it. I have not noticed any impairment to vision, hearing, or balance.
I also note that helmets are now required for skiing (not bike helmets of course), and kids get them for scootering – while the benefits are different, I am not sure there is evidence that there are issues with vision, hearing, etc.
August 23, 2016 at 2:38 pm #1057857rcannon100
ParticipantI will avoid entering religious helmet debates – but add one thing
Risk analysis involves these factors
* What is the cost of risk avoidance
* What is the chance of event occurring
* What is the harm if the event occursI will go back to my example of car headlights.
* Cost of risk avoidance: almost zero. I burn through light bulbs faster than otherwise. Who cares.
* Chance of a car accident happening without headlights: low – but over a light time of driving I would guess measurable. In other words, its a low risk but with so much driving there is a decent chance that at least one accident could occur.
* Harm of the event: Well, cars are pretty safe – but still – I would generally like to avoid two one-ton vehicles smashing into each other.Risk analysis is fact specific. Risk analysis of injury to head is different than say risk analysis of injury to say leg – because the harm (factor 3) is magnitudes different.
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