Any safe way to conserve brake pads

[jabberwocky]

@PotomacCyclist 101696 wrote:

The rear brake can help with bike balance issues, i.e., preventing a header over the handlebars. This is more of an issue for lighter bikes, and especially with a time trial/triathlon bike. (I know most people aren’t commuting on time trial bikes.)

My mountain bike is fairly heavy, so there isn’t much risk of flipping over the handlebars. Same thing with CaBi bikes, which might weigh around 50 lbs. But a month after I got my tri bike, I flipped over the handlebars when I clamped down on the front brakes too quickly. (I was lucky that I didn’t get seriously injured that day. I changed a few practices and I’ve never had another accident like that. Of course, I don’t ride the tri bike that often now.)

This is much more a geometry issue than a bike weight issue. For various reasons, mountain bikes tend to put the rider center of gravity much further back than road bikes. That makes them more difficult to endo on. Racing style road bikes (and time trial bikes) put the rider center of gravity much further forward, which makes it much easier to get the rear wheel off the ground under hard braking.

[Crickey7]

I see the point. It seems to be also an argument for proper modulation in whatever braking mode you use, rather than necessarily just an argument for front brakes alone in panic stops. It seems to me that even the relatively less amount of braking power supplied by the rear brakes would help prevent lockup in the front. I admit that I have experienced rear wheel drift in fast stops, though to date it’s always been fairly easily corrected.

More testing is required.

[cyclingfool]

@dkel 101701 wrote:

Then again, Sheldon could be totally wrong.

You blasphemer! :p

[hozn]

Yeah, I use front predominantly — and it has the bigger disc rotor (160mm) on my commuter and road bikes — but I would use both brakes if I was panic stopping on my road or cx bike. Assuming I had the presence of mind, I would also push myself back behind my saddle or I would surely go over the bars with front-brake only. Assuming that you can keep the rear wheel on the ground, I find it hard to understand how applying rear brakes does nothing to help one stop. But definitely in slippery conditions, I’ll be very careful with how I apply the front brake. I expect there will be a lot of those conditions over the next few months.

My front brake pads definitely wear out much faster on my road & cx bikes. Currently on my commuter, my front brake has ~2k miles on it and probably only another 500 or so before I replace the pads. It sees water and dirt far more often than the road bike, which if far less worn with similar mileage count. The rear brake has ~4k miles and I’m guessing another 1-2k miles before it needs to be replaced.

[Orestes Munn]

I find nothing to object to in the St. Sheldon article; my original comment contained merely an observation that I think (he hedges subtly here) I wear my rear pads out faster; and my response to dkel was not meant to be prescriptive. Nevertheless, my habit of some five decades, and it may be inefficient or flat out wrong, is to apply both brakes and, generally, to squeeze harder with the right hand, essentially because a whole lot less happens when I squeeze that side.

I have never gone anywhere near over the bars on any sort of bike, but in a panic stop I like the feeling that my central nervous system will put out braking force to both wheels and maybe delay a complete front lockup by a few milliseconds. Cornering on dry pavement is generally not a problem, but you don’t always see the gravel, leaves, etc., and it’s nice when it’s the rear that lets go. That’s my excuse, anyway.

[dkel]

@hozn 101707 wrote:

Yeah, I use front predominantly — and it has the bigger disc rotor (160mm) on my commuter and road bikes — but I would use both brakes if I was panic stopping on my road or cx bike. Assuming I had the presence of mind, I would also push myself back behind my saddle or I would surely go over the bars with front-brake only. Assuming that you can keep the rear wheel on the ground, I find it hard to understand how applying rear brakes does nothing to help one stop. But definitely in slippery conditions, I’ll be very careful with how I apply the front brake.

I agree with all this (except my rotors are the same size front and rear). This is also largely in agreement with Sheldon. The problem with rear brakes in a panic stop is that their effectiveness declines as weight shifts toward the front of the bike, and the rear wheel is more likely to skid as a result, causing even more trouble, as momentum from the rear will bring the front wheel around (since stopping power at that point is virtually nil in the rear). In my own experience, for a sudden stop, I instinctively squeeze both levers and push my weight back; I also inevitably skid the rear wheel and think I should just leave the rear brake out next time, which is never the way it goes the next time.

Whatev. Everyone stay safe!

[dkel]

@cyclingfool 101706 wrote:

You blasphemer! :p

I don’t think he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong.

[jabberwocky]

The vast majority of your braking power comes from the front wheel, but the rear contributes something, at least until the point that it leaves the ground. If you want to stop in a hurry, you want to use both brakes, ideally modulating the rear to just under where it starts to skid.

[chris_s]

@jabberwocky 101715 wrote:

The vast majority of your braking power comes from the front wheel, but the rear contributes something, at least until the point that it leaves the ground. If you want to stop in a hurry, you want to use both brakes, ideally modulating the rear to just under where it starts to skid.

And throw your weight backward. In an absolute emergency I slam both brakes and scoot backward off the saddle to sit on my rear rack. Takes practice though, gotta be muscle memory. Learned that in WABA’s Confident City Cycling 2 class.

[jabberwocky]

@chris_s 101717 wrote:

And throw your weight backward. In an absolute emergency I slam both brakes and scoot backward off the saddle to sit on my rear rack. Takes practice though, gotta be muscle memory. Learned that in WABA’s Confident City Cycling 2 class.

Right, that too. After many years on the MTB I do this without thinking about it, but you obviously have a lot of influence over the center of gravity of the bike, since you are most of the weight. Shifting back under hard braking will both keep the rear wheel on the ground (always nice) and distribute braking better over both wheels. In extreme cases, you can actually let the saddle pass between your legs and get your butt almost onto the rear wheel. A technique that is almost necessary on extremely steep MTB trails, BTW.

[Raymo853]

@cyclingfool 101706 wrote:

You blasphemer! :p

Before Sheldon Brown passed away, I once talked to him about how this article claims the rear brake should only be used about 5% of the time. (In 1999 or so) I think he added a bit of exceptions to that section later. The conversation grew out of an insulting e-mail I got from Richard Schwinn about how much of a putz I was for wanting rear brakes that worked on my ~1998 Gunnar Rockhound. The seatstays were so flexy the brakes both deflected outwards and rotated, causing the pads to move into the tire. After that frame broke at the headtube, my second Rockhound frame was remarkably better.

Regardless, brake pads/shoes and brake rotors/rims/drums should be seen as wear items. Yes keeping them clean, not dragging brakes, not riding in the wet, …. will all reduce wear but so will not riding at all and that is definitely unacceptable.

[lordofthemark]

wow – what a lot of info – thanks to all

FYI – 1. the current Dew comes with calipers, which I think means rim brakes – mine stops when these little rubber thingies press against the tire. That is rim brakes, right? Plus its a hybrid but “with mountain bike roots” FWIW.
2. I am guessing that my problem is one part braking slowly and steadily instead of hard and quick, one part not cleaning the rims after rain, one part not riding smoothly and strategically enough in hilly areas, and one part 31st street from Fairlington to Shirlington. I think if I brake better in non panic situations (like downhills) and ride in a way to reduce the number of panic situations, I will do much better.
3. The brake pads were on the pricey side – they put on Shimano’s at $30 for the full set (so yeah, I was using the rear brakes as well) Not sure I want to mess with brake pads, so much as make them last longer. I did NOT put on near enough miles last year for this to make sense.
4. While our insurance is good, last time I was hospitalized I did not enjoy it much. Plus it would undercut my biking proselytization in the office. Plus it tends to involve not biking while I am in the hospital. So I will pass on that option

[DismalScientist]

I hope the little rubber thingies press against the metal rim rather than the tire.:rolleyes:

[ShawnoftheDread]

@lordofthemark 101735 wrote:

wow – what a lot of info – thanks to all

FYI – 1. the current Dew comes with calipers, which I think means rim brakes – mine stops when these little rubber thingies press against the tire. That is rim brakes, right? Plus its a hybrid but “with mountain bike roots” FWIW.

They are v-brakes rather than calipers, but yes they are rim brakes. Two pair of brake shoes would run $12-$20, so $30 installed doesn’t seem bad if you really don’t want to learn how to do this yourself. It is pretty easy though.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 101737 wrote:

I hope the little rubber thingies press against the metal rim rather than the tire.:rolleyes:

:p Something like that. They press against the front and rear thingie.

[Author]

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