Another assault on the Met Branch Trail

[baiskeli]

Why must it be concealed? Seems an openly carried gun would be a more effective deterrent.

[skins_brew]

@NicDiesel 99341 wrote:

List them or it didn’t happen.

Zimmerman.

The guy is a jackass but the fact of the matter is that he was able to draw his firearm and eliminate the threat while getting physically assaulted.

[baiskeli]

This is going to be almost as bad as a thread about helmet laws. Almost.

[NicDiesel]

@skins_brew 99343 wrote:

Zimmerman.

The guy is a jackass but the fact of the matter is that he was able to draw his firearm and eliminate the threat while getting physically assaulted.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook.

Can someone delete this thread, it’s went off the rails…

[PotomacCyclist]

Those Texas prosecutors knew they were going to be targeted and they were armed. They were still assassinated.

There are also many cases where an owner’s weapon is used against them, or a child finds it and fires it.

[skins_brew]

@NicDiesel 99348 wrote:

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook.

Can someone delete this thread, it’s went off the rails…

You asked for it…

[lordofthemark]

@baiskeli 99346 wrote:

This is going to be almost as bad as a thread about helmet laws. Almost.

The advantage of the latter is that at least I can expect a lot of focused expertise on it. I would expect that every angle, including studies supporting both sides would be presented. I am not an expert on the impact of concealed carry laws, and am reluctant to get involved in such a discussion where there is one person expert who may also have an agenda. I guess (in answer to Dismal) I am a bit of (I think) a Deweyan – I expect the biases of experts to get sorted out in vigoruous, informed discussion. But having multiple informed discussants, with a range of biases, would seem to be important for that to work.

Note, of course I am not defending the Singapore press freedom discussion on those grounds – but then we weren’t actually debating a public policy issue in that case, were we?

[Geoff]

@skins_brew 99343 wrote:

Zimmerman.

The guy is a jackass but the fact of the matter is that he was able to draw his firearm and eliminate the threat while getting physically assaulted.

Of course, if he hadn’t been armed, he might not have been so bold as to stalk Martin in the first place and there wouldn’t have been an incident.

[PotomacCyclist]

Debate is OK. I don’t think the thread has degenerated into personal attacks, yet.

[jabberwocky]

@baiskeli 99342 wrote:

Why must it be concealed? Seems an openly carried gun would be a more effective deterrent.

Most people I know who carry much prefer concealed because they would rather not advertise they are carrying. Some people react weird to it. Its not “I want to show everyone I’m not to be screwed with”, its “I have it as an absolute last resort”.

This whole thing is a weird conversation to me. I know some people who carry on the MTB when riding in remote locations, but its a really hard thing to do on the bike in such a way that the firearm is secure but available. Same with running. We have a pretty big advantage in speed on the bike. Generally, if something is sketching me out, I’m heading the other way before I’d ever consider drawing a firearm. I don’t have a problem with it, but I don’t think its the solution to the problem this thread was premised on.

[skins_brew]

@Geoff 99352 wrote:

Of course, if he hadn’t been armed, he might not have been so bold as to stalk Martin in the first place and there wouldn’t have been an incident.

We are not talking about what Zimmerman did before the physical confrontation. We are talking about a tragic situation where someone was able to use a CCW while in the middle of a struggle.

[baiskeli]

@PotomacCyclist 99349 wrote:

Those Texas prosecutors knew they were going to be targeted and they were armed. They were still assassinated.

Well, yes, nobody said arming yourself would always work, but would you expect them to be safer unarmed?

[Geoff]

@skins_brew 99359 wrote:

We are not talking about what Zimmerman did before the physical confrontation. We are talking about a tragic situation where someone was able to use a CCW while in the middle of a struggle.

A tragic struggle that likely would never have happened if there had not been a CCW.

[skins_brew]

@Geoff 99361 wrote:

A tragic struggle that likely would never have happened if there had not been a CCW.

Again, off topic.

I presented Zimmerman as being a situation where close quartered physical assault was stopped with a CCW permit. I did not present Zimmerman as a point FOR CCW laws.

[NicDiesel]

@jabberwocky 99355 wrote:

Most people I know who carry much prefer concealed because they would rather not advertise they are carrying. Some people react weird to it. Its not “I want to show everyone I’m not to be screwed with”, its “I have it as an absolute last resort”.[/quote]

In a former life I had a job that involved entering sketchy neighborhoods in east Richmond late at night to empty and refill change machines that required a CCW and I made it a point to keep it concealed at all times, even during the summer. Everyone knew that the “change man” was carrying and we never had a single issue during my tenure. We all came out of firearm and CCW training knowing that even showing our weapon was a last resort and that firing it had to be a life and death situation but we also avoided any situation during shifts were issues could occur.

@jabberwocky 99355 wrote:

This whole thing is a weird conversation to me. I know some people who carry on the MTB when riding in remote locations, but its a really hard thing to do on the bike in such a way that the firearm is secure but available.

Right, most of the people I know that carry when they mountain bike or tour don’t have them readily available or loaded until they set up camp. I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m usually loaded down with a bag or panniers, a helmet, glasses, and a ton of stuff that would make accessing a weapon (any weapon) next to impossible if I got surprised on a trail. I can’t imagine someone really believing you could ride with a concealed firearm in a way that you could access it if the situation presented itself.

@skins_brew 99359 wrote:

We are not talking about what Zimmerman did before the physical confrontation. We are talking about a tragic situation where someone was able to use a CCW while in the middle of a struggle.

The point you’re missing is that most reasonable people would not put themselves in a situation where they’d need to draw a weapon CCW permit or not. I don’t ride down 6th Avenue super late at night when I’m coming home from Lake Calhoun or downtown because there’s a chance some drunk or idiot might be a pest or hassle me so I add another two miles to my ride and take the Greenway. If the trail isn’t safe not using it until it’s properly addressed by the authorities or a trail watch is an option, not going loaded waiting for a situation to present itself isn’t.

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