ACPD Blocking Key Bridge Access, Threatening Cyclists

[baiskeli]

Now there are two questions – was the cop’s actions “a threat” and were they “chilling” speech. Two different questions. It could be one, or the other, or both or neither.

[DismalScientist]

If I yell “What’s your problem?” to a motorist offending my sensibilities and I am armed with my rapier wit, does that make me threatening someone?

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 96452 wrote:

If I yell “What’s your problem?” to a motorist offending my sensibilities and I am armed with my rapier wit, does that make me threatening someone?

Well it might if you were armed with an actual rapier. I don’t think I could fit one in my backpack, but I guess one could manage one on a rack, with appropriate hardware. Might be good to have on some of the sketchier trails.

[arlrider]

Honestly the main focus of my original post was supposed to be on the sidewalk blocking. The fact that the guy was being a jerk/mean/threatening about it was just the icing on the cake. Hopefully it’s all resolved and everything will be good from now on.

[AFHokie]

@peterw_diy 96411 wrote:

Seriously? Where have you been that you haven’t heard of LEOs improperly harassing individuals for taking pictures? Did you miss the story of Maryland arresting someone and confiscating gear for videorecording an on-duty state trooper? How about the credentialed WaPo reporter arrested for “trespassing” in a McDonalds after videorecording police?

Fair or not, LEOs have a reputation for highly disliking being photographed, and reacting as if they were, to use the FBI Director’s language, “beyond the law.”

@rcannon100 96446 wrote:

It’s well established First Amendment law. It’s called “chilling speech.” Peterw_diy references some of the precedent. And yes, it is quite illegal. Simply stated, LE can take no action to discourage you from exercising your First Amendment rights. The penalties for doing so are substantial. ACLU Information on photography and police.

As an amateur photographer, I know it’s not just LEO’s who dislike being photographed. I’ve also been around enough to know it’s legal in VA & MD. I’m also smart enough to know I will not debate 1st amendment rights on a bike forum.

[AFHokie]

@arlrider 96362 wrote:

I would just like to make it clear that I made no statement to this officer, nor did I even make eye contact. The photo was taken at a distance where I could have been photographing any number of things. Yet he seemed to know exactly what was up. It’s almost like he knew he was doing something wrong…

I’m a results-driven person and I haven’t seen any positive results.

@arlrider 96428 wrote:

He did not ask “what are you doing?”. He asked “Do you have a PROBLEM?” (emphasis his) while stepping forward towards the sidewalk where i was trying to ride. It was not asked while I was taking the photo but later while I was riding by (the photo was taken from far away). When a man with a gun asks me if I have a problem while starting to move towards me, I consider that akin to picking a fight, and yes I find it threatening.

And @jnva, I too was glad to see the new placement today. I hope that’s a result of a policy, not just one officer that was smarter or more motivated than others have been in the past.

You give two conflicting accounts. In the first, you’re minding your own business and out of nowhere the officer comes at you with hostile intent. In the second, your statement gives the impression that you’re giving either, him, his car, or both the stink eye (which he catches) to which he then asks you what’s the problem.

For the record, I’m not defending him. Again, if you’re quoting him exactly, I think he was rude. Personally, I think he should’ve parked the car in the grass where he was standing and he should be standing where the car was, but I wasn’t there and I’m not an ACPD member. I don’t know the department’s training and policies. There are a number of reasons as to why he parked his car there and some could be legitimate. That said, it’s not like he left six inches between his car and a wall; the guy ahead of you appears to make it around without incident.

Should he have negatively interacted with you? No, of course not, but how about taking a hard look at how you approached him? Can you honestly say that you did not give him a look of contempt or disgust as you went by? Based on the tone of your posts, I’m not certain you can honestly say you did not.

Based on your thread posts I get the impression that no matter what, every cop starts out in a hole with you for no reason other than the fact they’re a police officer.

[dasgeh]

FWIW, I’ve had positive interactions with police when I’ve been polite and respectful of their office. One I can think of started with the officer asking if I had a problem (he was blocking a cycletrack). I politely said yes, I do, and explained why. We had a long exchange, and in the end, he insisted that he had to be where he was (“on orders”), but was willing to make some changes to make things safer for cyclists. It wasn’t huge, but it was something, and I now have more information to complain about the formal policy.

[arlrider]

@AFHokie 96463 wrote:

You give two conflicting accounts. In the first, you’re minding your own business and out of nowhere the officer comes at you with hostile intent. In the second, your statement gives the impression that you’re giving either, him, his car, or both the stink eye (which he catches) to which he then asks you what’s the problem.

I see nothing in the quoted posts above that supports this assertion that my accounts are conflicting. I took a picture from a distance and then rode/walked past the constriction in the sidewalk, at which time the officer made the statement which I quoted. I took the photo in a manner which was intended to be discreet (from chest level and glancing) but he obviously saw what I was doing and this was the basis for the comment.

@AFHokie 96463 wrote:

Can you honestly say that you did not give him a look of contempt or disgust as you went by? Based on the tone of your posts, I’m not certain you can honestly say you did not.

Yes, I can say that. Because I knew that taking a photo could provoke a response and I did not want to do anything to further those chances. That’s why I took the photo from a distance and tried not to make a scene. Moreover, as stated upthread, the blockage of the sidewalk caused me to need to slow and dismount following a pedestrian, so I was focused on that.

@AFHokie 96463 wrote:

Based on your thread posts I get the impression that no matter what, every cop starts out in a hole with you for no reason other than the fact they’re a police officer.

And based on your thread posts, I get the impression that you like to insert “facts” that you have made up to support your arguments.

@dasgeh 96471 wrote:

FWIW, I’ve had positive interactions with police when I’ve been polite and respectful of their office.

I have too, but when the officer starts with a loaded statement in an aggressive tone, then I see the odds stacked against me and do not wish to pursue discourse.

[Sunyata]

Out of curiosity, I wonder if the OP thought about explaining to the officer why his placement on the sidewalk was a bad idea instead of taking a photo to complain about it on a bike forum?

Law enforcement officers are people too. They make mistakes and sometimes do not think about how their actions affect others. Perhaps the officer thought his vehicle placement provided enough room for cyclists and pedestrians to move around him. Perhaps he was not thinking about two-way traffic on the sidewalk. If he is not a cyclist, he may not think about these things. Granted, that does not excuse the behaviour, but honestly… If someone does not point this out to him (perhaps in a polite manner), how will he understand that his action has negative consequences on morning commuters there?

If I were in my line of duty (or even NOT in my line of duty) and I noticed someone attempting to covertly take a photo of me, I might get a little perturbed, too. And while his response may have seemed rude to you (I was not there, I can only go on what you are telling us), I would not constitute his asking if there was a problem out of line.

My suggestion for incidences like this in the future is to stop, ask the officer if he has a moment and politely and calmly explain why you feel his actions are unsafe. “Officer, from my perspective as a cyclist, your vehicle placement on the sidewalk is limiting the space that cyclists and pedestrians have in this area to maneuver around each other safely. Would you still be able to fulfill your duty by moving your vehicle off the sidewalk and onto the grass?” You might be surprised at what you accomplish.

[arlrider]

@Sunyata 96478 wrote:

Out of curiosity, I wonder if the OP thought about explaining to the officer why his placement on the sidewalk was a bad idea instead of taking a photo to complain about it on a bike forum?

I took the photo because there had been several articles written in the past weeks, as I stated in my original post, discussing the intersection and ACPD’s response to incidents there. ACPD, in those articles, basically made themselves sound like they had everything taken care of, making references to “officers there daily” and “directing traffic”. I wanted to gather a piece of data to document what was actually happening, which was running counter to what ACPD was claiming was happening. I knew that without data my claim would probably be written off as unfounded. I was not looking to engage an officer in debate or school him on etiquette, simply to document the actuality of a much-touted departmental response to an ongoing issue.

[Dirt]

First off, I know that my experience at the IoD this morning is quite a bit different than what y’all have seen and done in the last few weeks.

I spent almost 2 hours hanging out with and near the police officer this morning. He was a little gruff at first, but when he figured that I wasn’t there with a specific agenda in mind, but just to talk, listen and enjoy a lovely morning, he relaxed a bit. Dude was nice and even pretended to think one of my jokes was funny…. I could see it in his eyes…. sort of.

What I noticed in my time standing with him and across the street (by the bike counter) was that he was really working to keep things orderly and safe in the intersection. He did a pretty good job of keeping people from blocking the box. People generally flowed through the intersection (walkers, cyclists and drivers) a little smoother.

I’ll go back and hang with him again this week and next. In my opinion, it is a good thing that he’s there.

For those of you who find him in your way, please remember that he’s moving as a pedestrian when he’s standing there. It is your responsibility to slow down and yield to him. It is not his responsibility to get out of your way.

Part of what I likely saw today was ACPD learning from things they didn’t get right over the last few weeks. I’m not saying that peoples’ complaints about what happened the last few weeks are not valid. I’m just calling it as I saw things today.

Have a good evening.

Pete

[rcannon100]

@Sunyata 96478 wrote:

My suggestion for incidences like this in the future is to stop, ask the officer if he has a moment and politely and calmly explain why you feel his actions are unsafe.

I hate to say it: you must be white and privileged. Not everyone has the same experience with police that you do. For many, the police are innately a threat. The unfortunately reality is that the officer, with a car parked on the sidewalk blocking pedestrian traffic, who has responded negatively to being photographed (he is a public figure and citizens have first amendment rights) – has already established the tone to this conversation. Unfortunately, many have experienced situations like this with police officers – and they go south quickly.

I had a similar experience with ACPD when they drove the wrong way down a road in an unmarked car. I called the officer out on it (not even knowing at that time it was ACPD – just assuming it was another jack ass driving the wrong way down the street). That encounter ended with a 2nd officer threatening me with arrest. That matter was handled by ACPD IG.

Again, I was driving down Lee Hwy, and had an aggressive driver tailgating me. I moved to the left turn lane, the car sped (above speed limit) by. I honked. The car proceeded to make an illegal left turn through a parking lot and cut my off on the next road. Turned out – again – it was an unmarked police officer. Ironically, it was an ACPD officer who is in charge of educating about aggressive driving. He tried to be belligerent. I pointed out that he was aggressively driving and tailgating. He tried to be belligerent. By this time I had learned about the IG. I had two witnesses in the car. I looked down at his badge; he saw me look down at his badge. He backed away rather quickly.

I will challenge you to a game. We play it all the time. It’s called “Guess the ethnicity of the driver.” In Arlington, at a traffic stop, count the number of ACPD cars at the stop, and then guess the ethnicity of the driver. For decades (I have lived here 25 years), 2 police cars = non white every single time.

Your encounters with police may have all been roses. I will admit – I love ACPD. There may be some rough edges, but we have a great county and a great police force. That said – it is a power relationship – and there are lots of sociological studies about how police abuse their position of authority.

Contrary to what people are saying, they are not people like you and me. They are people with authority, who carry guns, who have the power to arrest you, and have the power to make your life miserable. This is the very reason why police forces are held accountable. This is the very reason why what Arlrider did is so important. To live in a democracy, we must have accountability and we must have the ability to curtail abuses of power (including abuses that start as small ones: I can park my car anywhere ~ and I can discourage people from photographing me.).

[rcannon100]

@Dirt 96539 wrote:

Have a good evening.

Pete

Dirt – You Rock.

In another thread there was a discussion about appropriate expenditures of WABA’s resources. Dirt, in a single act of WWDD, has just done an amazing thing and contributed massively to the solution.

Chicks Dig Dirt.

[Dirt]

@rcannon100 96542 wrote:

I hate to say it: you must be white and privileged. Not everyone has the same experience with police that you do. For many, the police are innately a threat.

You’ve got that right, sir. Not everyone can do what I did today. Guess it is a good use of my white male privilege that I can take one for the team.

[rcannon100]

You done good. Officially its known as risk-communications. Entering an environment of lack of trust, being ability to calm the other sides fears, and being able to effectively communicate – them good skills.

If you ever hear a government official say something like “I am a parent and I have children too. I share your fears….” They learned that in risk communications.

And yes, in environments of lack of trust, having a third party – like a WABA ambassador in pink – enter – can serve the forces of good.

[Author]

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