8/26/16 Cyclist Hit By Car

Our Community Forums Crashes, Close Calls and Incidents 8/26/16 Cyclist Hit By Car

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 44 total)
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  • #1058552
    Fairlington124
    Participant
    Quote:
    a station wagon headed south on George Mason Dr. rolled to the intersection and proceeded to make the turn to head west on Washington Blvd.

    Per google maps, the driver was making a right, and it sounds like the light would have been red for the driver.

    Hence, it was a “rolling” right-on-red (i.e. driver didn’t come to a complete stop), and then obviously didn’t yield to a pedestrian in the intersection.

    We’ll see if the driver gets anything at all. I don’t have much hope.

    #1058554
    Steve O
    Participant

    @Fairlington124 145493 wrote:

    Per google maps, the driver was making a right, and it sounds like the light would have been red for the driver.

    Hence, it was a “rolling” right-on-red (i.e. driver didn’t come to a complete stop), and then obviously didn’t yield to a pedestrian in the intersection.

    We’ll see if the driver gets anything at all. I don’t have much hope.

    Yes. Reminder to all to please order and read your free copy of “Surviving the Crash” by Bruce Deming, the bike lawyer. This will help you both if you are ever in a crash or if you come upon one. He recommends in a case like this to take photos, photos, photos and get the names and contact info from everyone, including the grumpy guy. And, of course, the victim, so that you can forward your photos and info.
    And then tell them to call Bruce.

    I agree with Fairlington. This is a classic right-on-red violation. Even if the car did come to a complete stop (which may or may not be the case), the driver is still obligated to wait for any persons in the crosswalk before proceeding.

    #1058556
    Steve O
    Participant

    @JorgeGortex 145485 wrote:

    I think everyone was lucky. Glad the kid had a helmet on.

    I don’t think the kid was lucky at all. Lucky because some self-entitled driver didn’t have the patience to come to a complete stop and take due care that no vulnerable road users might get crushed by his/her 3000-pound weapon? And, as Fairlington predicts, likely to not even get a favorable police report that might result in the driver’s insurance buying him a new bike. Doesn’t sound lucky to me.
    OTOH, the driver is likely to be the lucky one. A little scrape on the bumper.

    #1058557
    Mariner
    Participant

    @Steve O 145497 wrote:

    I agree with Fairlington. This is a classic right-on-red violation. Even if the car did come to a complete stop (which may or may not be the case), the driver is still obligated to wait for any persons in the crosswalk before proceeding.

    +1 on the book.

    #1058594
    ShawnoftheDread
    Participant

    So that’s three right-turn-into-path-of-cyclist-in-crosswalk crashes I’ve heard about just today.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    #1058597
    DismalScientist
    Participant

    I was told as a kid that riding bicycles (at any speed) on sidewalks was dangerous. It seems that every year I see a Swanson student taken out while riding on the sidewalk of Washington Blvd at a driveway or street crossing. Sidewalks are designed with sight-lines appropriate for walking speeds. Tell your kids to ride in the street rather than the sidewalk. If the street is too busy, try an alternate route. If Washington Blvd is too stressful, try 16th Street, which has much less traffic.

    (If the kid was on the sidewalk on the north side of Washington Blvd heading east, he was riding “against” traffic (not illegally). Imagine if you are a driver making a right on red. You are likely looking left to see if there is no oncoming westbound traffic. What is the likelihood of you seeing a fast moving person on a sidewalk coming from the right? (Since the kid went “flying,” he likely was moving quickly.) It maybe doesn’t matter whether you come to a complete stop or not. What part of the car hit the bike? If it were the back end, the car could very well have been astride the crosswalk before the cyclist even entered it.)

    #1058599
    JorgeGortex
    Participant

    Let us just say for clarity that the kid lives on that side of the street within sight of the corner (as I learned after the accident). “Flying” is my wording, not necessarily 100% accurate. Everyone should keep in mind that I was focused on the cars and intersection in front of me, and it was the odd movement at the intersection that caught my attention. My next impression was of him “flying” as he “released” from his bike “into the air” and then stumbled with his bike to a stop. Lots of quotes to emphasize that words don’t always describe the exact nature of the event. I am but a humble wordsmith trying to relate a tale for the purpose of relating a tale on our forum.

    JG

    @DismalScientist 145543 wrote:

    I was told as a kid that riding bicycles (at any speed) on sidewalks was dangerous. It seems that every year I see a Swanson student taken out while riding on the sidewalk of Washington Blvd at a driveway or street crossing. Sidewalks are designed with sight-lines appropriate for walking speeds. Tell your kids to ride in the street rather than the sidewalk. If the street is too busy, try an alternate route. If Washington Blvd is too stressful, try 16th Street, which has much less traffic.

    (If the kid was on the sidewalk on the north side of Washington Blvd heading east, he was riding “against” traffic (not illegally). Imagine if you are a driver making a right on red. You are likely looking left to see if there is no oncoming westbound traffic. What is the likelihood of you seeing a fast moving person on a sidewalk coming from the right? (Since the kid went “flying,” he likely was moving quickly.) It maybe doesn’t matter whether you come to a complete stop or not. What part of the car hit the bike? If it were the back end, the car could very well have been astride the crosswalk before the cyclist even entered it.)

    #1058600
    Steve O
    Participant

    @DismalScientist 145543 wrote:

    I was told as a kid that riding bicycles (at any speed) on sidewalks was dangerous. It seems that every year I see a Swanson student taken out while riding on the sidewalk of Washington Blvd at a driveway or street crossing. Sidewalks are designed with sight-lines appropriate for walking speeds. Tell your kids to ride in the street rather than the sidewalk. If the street is too busy, try an alternate route. If Washington Blvd is too stressful, try 16th Street, which has much less traffic.

    (If the kid were on the sidewalk on the north side of Washington Blvd heading east, he was riding “against” traffic (not illegally). Imagine if you are a driver making a right on red. You are likely looking left to see if there is no oncoming westbound traffic. What is the likelihood of you seeing a fast moving person on a sidewalk coming from the right? (Since the kid went “flying,” he likely was moving quickly.) It maybe doesn’t matter whether you come to a complete stop or not. What part of the car hit the bike? If it were the back end, the car could very well have been astride the crosswalk before the cyclist even entered it.)

    I agree with Dismal that this sort of thing happens due to the circumstances. And I agree that riding in the street (with traffic, of course) makes the person on the bike easier to see.
    This does not excuse in any way, though, the driver from not taking due care. If I imagine myself as someone making a right on red, as Dismal suggests, and I cannot be 100% certain I can safely make this turn, then I would wait.
    A person could just as easily been running on the sidewalk and just as easily been run down by this driver because he or she did not completely stop and make certain no one was proceeding along the sidewalk, very possibly with a walk signal. As a person using the sidewalk, whether on foot, bike or in a speedy wheelchair, if I have a walk signal I should feel safe to cross without having to yield to someone in a car because they want to turn across my right of way on a red light.
    If the driver were unable to ascertain that a fast-moving sidewalk user might enter the right of way before she could clear the crosswalk, then she should have waited for the green. There is no obligation to turn right on red.

    Yes, this happens all the time, sadly. But what needs to change is not making the vulnerable road users cower before entitled car drivers. What needs to change is more places with No Right on Red and infrastructure that reduces and eliminates conflicts.

    #1058607
    Fairlington124
    Participant

    Here come the VCers blaming the kid for not being a confident VCer and taking the lane on Washington Blvd during rush hour. Nevermind the fact that it was the driver and the driver alone for hitting the kid. VCers have never found a situation that wasn’t fixed by blaming the cyclist for taking the lane.

    #1058609
    lordofthemark
    Participant

    We have joggers in this region, who are legally required to use the sidewalk if there is one. They can and do run at 6 mph or more, so drivers making right turns should be looking out for sidewalk users going at least that fast. Cyclists who use sidewalks for whatever reason (and there are several to do so) need to avoid going through an intersection faster than that, and need to be otherwise careful at intersections.

    #1058612
    Fairlington124
    Participant

    We don’t know what speed the cyclist was going at, and it’s not fair to him to speculate one way or another. In any regard, I know of no law or regulation concerned speeds on sidewalks.

    One thing we do know, however, is the the motorist rolled through a red light without stopping. Had the motorist stopped, like the law requires, the cyclist almost certainly wouldn’t have been hit, or would have been hit at a much slower speed.

    Stop blaming the cyclist. We’re talking about a school-age minor (could be 18 I guess). And we have all of these experienced cyclists saying he should have taken the lane, as if that’s something we can reasonably expect of someone of that age…No wonder people take much of the cycling community to be out of touch. Maybe the cyclist had a very simple and sensible reason for riding on the sidewalk, in that it made him/her feel safe. The fact is that the motorist broke a law which is designed to prevent the very thing that wound up happening.

    #1058661
    lordofthemark
    Participant

    Fairlington

    There are, in my opinion, four different issues. Criminal penalty, civil lawsuit, moral culpability, and prudential advice.

    Criminal penalty, as you point out the driver was guilty of rolling through a stop, and the rider, at whatever speed, not guilty of any infraction. However unfortunately traffic tickets for a rolling stop are (almost?) never given out if there is no policeman who witnessed it.

    Civil lawsuit. IANAL, but I agree that making a rolling right means substantial, if not all fault to the driver. Virginia unfortunately (IMO) is a contributory negligence state, meaning a rider who is even partially at fault may collect nothing. A rider who goes above say 10 MPH through a crosswalk may well fail collect. Even in a comparative negligence state, such action might substantially reduce what they could collect.

    Moral culpability – Similar to civil, if we had comparative negligence. A red light rolling driver is substantially culpable, but a rider going fast through a crosswalk (IF that is what happened) would also be somewhat at fault.

    Prudence – While there is no legal speed limit I know of for riding on sidewalks where it is legal (as it is in all of Arlington County, IIUC) – there is a requirement to yield to pedestrians, and politeness suggests riding quite slowly near pedestrians on a sidewalk (more so than on a multi use path). Where there are no pedestrians on the sidewalk (not a rare occurrence) prudence suggests that while a cyclist may ride as fast as the surface allows on a section with no driveways or intersections, it is unwise to ride much over jogging pace at intersections (including driveways) – though IMO this will differ somewhat depending on details of visibility. I do ride on sidewalks here and there – for example when I am coming home from King and Beauregard, while I will sometimes take the lane on King when traffic seems relatively tame (or when there are a lot of pedestrians on the sidewalk) more often I ride the sidewalk on the west side of King. Assuming no pedestrians, my principle concern doing that is the intersection with 28th Street. While there is not a lot of right turning traffic there, there is some, and I do not wish to one day become a casualty, so I generally slow down, and give a good look to the side to see if there is any potential right turning traffic. Even doing that I am still uncomfortable with that route choice.

    #1056884
    dasgeh
    Participant

    @DismalScientist 145543 wrote:

    I was told as a kid that riding bicycles (at any speed) on sidewalks was dangerous. It seems that every year I see a Swanson student taken out while riding on the sidewalk of Washington Blvd at a driveway or street crossing. Sidewalks are designed with sight-lines appropriate for walking speeds. Tell your kids to ride in the street rather than the sidewalk. If the street is too busy, try an alternate route. If Washington Blvd is too stressful, try 16th Street, which has much less traffic.

    (If the kid was on the sidewalk on the north side of Washington Blvd heading east, he was riding “against” traffic (not illegally). Imagine if you are a driver making a right on red. You are likely looking left to see if there is no oncoming westbound traffic. What is the likelihood of you seeing a fast moving person on a sidewalk coming from the right? (Since the kid went “flying,” he likely was moving quickly.) It maybe doesn’t matter whether you come to a complete stop or not. What part of the car hit the bike? If it were the back end, the car could very well have been astride the crosswalk before the cyclist even entered it.)

    NO. STOP. This is not the kid’s fault. This is not the parents’ fault. You don’t get to blame them for bad driving.

    #1056887
    DismalScientist
    Participant

    There is a set of facts consistent with the original description of the event where the primary fault for the incident would primarily be the kid’s. I outlined it in my post.

    Why is it so difficult to understand that riding on the sidewalk often requires more attention and skill than riding in the street? We do cyclists no favor by advocating segregating them from motor vehicle traffic when they end up on more dangerous infrastructure.

    #1056890
    lordofthemark
    Participant

    @DismalScientist 145627 wrote:

    There is a set of facts consistent with the original description of the event where the primary fault for the incident would primarily be the kid’s. I outlined it in my post.

    Why is it so difficult to understand that riding on the sidewalk often requires more attention and skill than riding in the street? We do cyclists no favor by advocating segregating them from motor vehicle traffic when they end up on more dangerous infrastructure.

    Because the attention and skill required, and the comfort and safety, in each choice, vary with speed, riding style, even time of day and weather conditions, etc, I do not advocate for segregating cyclists, but prefer to provide them a choice of either using segregated infrastructure, or riding mixed with motor vehicle traffic (and of course in places where many riders would choose seg infra, and/or where sidewalks are heavily used by pedestrians, I strongly support bike infra superior to sidewalks – let us not conflate the issues of sidewalk riding with seg infra in general)

    I do note one way of having sidewalk cyclists (and other sidewalk users) avoid mixing with right turning on red traffic at intersections, is to ban right on red when pedestrians are present. I have seen such signs in Alexandria (in particular close to my home, at Park Center and King) but am not sure if y’all have them in Arlington. I presume one would not consider that form of “segregation” to be doing harm to cyclists? Or at least to accept it may be desirable because it benefits walkers. (I also note that where I grew up, right on red was and continues to be banned except where allowed by signage)

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