Upcoming Micromobility Ordinance will also regulate e-bikes
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Dewey.
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October 30, 2019 at 11:47 pm #1100987
n18
ParticipantThe link in the middle of the article gives a link to a PDF file of the draft. Here are somethings I noted, but I am not an expert:
1 – In page 26 of 149: ยง 14.2-64.1 part D, students under 16 will not be allowed to bike to school using either the protected bike lanes, or the sidewalks adjacent to them, because riding on sidewalks would be prohibited when protected bike lanes are present. My guess is that the age required to use the road(and bike lanes) is 16, and so they can’t use either.
2 – Same page, part A: Speed limit for sidewalk riding(including regular bicycles) is not decided, they say 6 or 15 MPH. 6 MPH is too slow for bicycles, fine I think for scooters. 7 or 8 MPH is better.The city of Fairfax has passed long time ago a similar ordinance, prohibiting sidewalk riding except in designated paths, so basically students are not allowed to bike to school; however, they didn’t post any signs that I could see, and so thanks to state law, that part of the ordinance is null and void.
October 31, 2019 at 2:45 am #1100994Dewey
ParticipantThanks for fighting the good fight Chris.
But the parent-child cycling haters hating in the comments…must…not…rise to the bait
October 31, 2019 at 11:54 am #1100996chris_s
Participant@Dewey 194008 wrote:
But the parent-child cycling haters hating in the comments…must…not…rise to the bait
It’s just Jim’s crazy cast of sock puppets, it’s not actually multiple people.
October 31, 2019 at 12:58 pm #1100998josh
Participant@chris_s 194010 wrote:
It’s just Jim’s crazy cast of sock puppets, it’s not actually multiple people.
Found ’em
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October 31, 2019 at 2:57 pm #1100985EasyRider
Participant@chris_s 194003 wrote:
Hey all – on November 16th the County Board will vote on the “micromobility ordinance”. Most folks think of this as the “scooter ordinance” but it’s going to have major impacts on bikes and e-bikes as well.
For instance: legalizes e-bikes on trails. Sets a speed limit for e-bikes on trails. Gives the County Manager the ability to ban bikes from certain sidewalks without defining any clear public process for making that decision. Sets a speed limit for e-bikes on sidewalks (probably at 6mph). Bans e-bikes on sidewalks on blocks that have a protected bike lane.
Read more here and let the County Board know what you think.
Chris, like you, I’m just baffled by the need for different speed limits for various modes (scooter, e-bike, pedal bike) and settings (trail, street). What do you think is their reasoning for a such a complicated approach?
Why not just set a universal speed limit of 15-20mph on MUPs and bike lanes, and if you’re in the street, you can go as fast as the posted speed limit (usually 25-30mph). Simple speed limits would be easily understood by users and anticipate future devices (I’m hoping electric caterpillar-tracked snowshoes drop soon). Speed limits would also help keep MUPs from turning into e-bike highways dominated by Commute-Slayer 5000 Turbos, without burdening electric wheelbarrow drivers like yourself
October 31, 2019 at 3:26 pm #1101000mstone
ParticipantSpeed limits on trails are stupid except to satisfy haters who want bikes to not be “special” and have rules even if the rules are stupid. There is absolutely no reason to ever post a trail speed limit.
October 31, 2019 at 3:27 pm #1101001Judd
Participant@EasyRider 194014 wrote:
Chris, like you, I’m just baffled by the need for different speed limits for various modes (scooter, e-bike, pedal bike) and settings (trail, street). What do you think is their reasoning for a such a complicated approach?
Why not just set a universal speed limit of 15-20mph on MUPs and bike lanes, and if you’re in the street, you can go as fast as the posted speed limit (usually 25-30mph). Simple speed limits would be easily understood by users and anticipate future devices (I’m hoping electric caterpillar-tracked snowshoes drop soon). Speed limits would also help keep MUPs from turning into e-bike highways dominated by Commute-Slayer 5000 Turbos, without burdening electric wheelbarrow drivers like yourself
Just going to copy and paste this and send it to all of the County Board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
October 31, 2019 at 4:05 pm #1101003EasyRider
Participant@mstone 194016 wrote:
Speed limits on trails are stupid except to satisfy haters who want bikes to not be “special” and have rules even if the rules are stupid. There is absolutely no reason to ever post a trail speed limit.
I don’t agree. I’m not a hater. I’ve been riding here for 20 years. I think ebikes make speed limits a good idea. if we’re going to allow vehicles capable of going nearly 30mph on MUPs, vehicles which specifically appeal to and are often operated by individuals lacking experience, speed limits are helpful. Sorry if that offends; with power comes responsibility. A unenforced speed limit of 20mph on a MUPs would affect probably 2% of pedal bike riders, half of them going downhill. Basically, I think a 20mph speed limit would gesture at keeping ebikes from running amok and have almost no effect on everybody else.
October 31, 2019 at 6:20 pm #1101004Dewey
ParticipantHere are some other thoughts I have about the proposals:
Under the draft resolution I read it to mean e-bikes that meet the existing Virginia power/speed definition of an electric power-assisted bicycle (<1,000w/25mph) would be defined in the Arlington Code as a type of "Micro-Mobility Device" including e-scooters, e-unicycles, e-skateboards, and e-bikes.
– It’s unclear to me if the 20mph trail speed limit is a “powered” speed limit or an absolute speed limit, On my Class 2 e-bike I regularly exceed 20mph riding on the street downhill from Courthouse toward Rosslyn unpowered simply due to gravity, if I take the Custis trail I ride the brakes because on that narrow trail with frequent stops due to crossing streets and entryways I prefer descending under controlled braking, but there are stretches on the Rt 50 bike trail descending toward Iwo Jima from Ft Myer Heights with good sight lines after you round the corner where you can safely exceed 20mph unpowered.
– It’s unclear to me why the proposed sidewalk speed limit is to apply to all Micro-Mobility Devices equally, an e-bike is not a scooter, skateboard, or e-unicycle, with tiny wheels and low center of gravity – 6mph is too slow for some e-bikes for powered low-speed manouvering in pedal assist level 1, while for some e-bikes 6mph might be too slow for safe unpowered low-speed manouvering where issues like balancing weight, center of gravity, gearing for high speeds, require they maintain a higher speed when pedalled.
– Micro-Mobility Devices including e-bikes would all require a functioning speedometer…but there are many e-bikes that use LED displays with no speed readout like the Giant RideControl One, or in the case of electric unicycles and skateboards cannot physically mount a speedometer, at the least this needs rewording to include phone apps by way of an alternative to OEM equipment, but then this would require the rider to always have the phone app on and visible displaying speed, an e-bike handlebar can accommodate a phone mount but an e-skateboard or e-unicycle rider would have to be holding the phone in his/her hand in line of sight and that strikes me as unsafe when we discourage texting while riding and those devices sometimes require you move your arms around to physically balance.
– The proposals for regulating shared Micro-Mobility Device operating companies provide the County with power to revoke an operating permit for a safety violation and inspect any new equipment fitted, but it does not require operating companies to share safety data with each other. This emerged as a problem earlier this spring when Capital Bikeshare Plus shared ebikes were withdrawn for the same brake issue that led Uber to modify their 1st gen JUMP bikeshare ebikes last fall, but Uber apparently did not share this information with Motivate/Lyft and several riders reported falls and injuries before Lyft withdrew their bikes 6 months later.October 31, 2019 at 7:05 pm #1101005scoot
Participant@EasyRider 194014 wrote:
Chris, like you, I’m just baffled by the need for different speed limits for various modes …
Why not just set a universal speed limit of 15-20mph on MUPs and bike lanes, and if you’re in the street, you can go as fast as the posted speed limit (usually 25-30mph).
I agree. Far too complicated. The type of vehicle should not be a factor in setting urban speed limits.
I do however think that the setting should be a factor, with different limits for streets vs. trails vs. sidewalks. Bike lanes should be considered as part of the street, with the same speed limit as required for automobiles. Certainly for un-“protected” lanes, such as those that are immediately adjacent to vehicles, it would be absurd to set a different speed limit. However, I could be convinced that PBLs belong in the trail class with a universal 15-20MPH limit; many PBLs are unsafe at those speeds anyway due to turning conflicts, visibility obscurations, and proximity to pedestrians. I also think it’s reasonable to set a lower speed limit for sidewalks than for PBLs/trails.
October 31, 2019 at 7:29 pm #1101006n18
ParticipantI prefer that it says this about speed limits on sidewalks: “Speed on sidewalks should be limited to 10?15? MPH, unless within 3 Feet from any pedestrian, then the speed limit would be 6 MPH.”
I doubt that this would be enforced, but laws job is to assign liability on the law breaker in case of crashes.
October 31, 2019 at 7:58 pm #1101007Steve O
Participant@EasyRider 194019 wrote:
I don’t agree. I’m not a hater. I’ve been riding here for 20 years. I think ebikes make speed limits a good idea. if we’re going to allow vehicles capable of going nearly 30mph on MUPs, vehicles which specifically appeal to and are often operated by individuals lacking experience, speed limits are helpful. Sorry if that offends; with power comes responsibility. A unenforced speed limit of 20mph on a MUPs would affect probably 2% of pedal bike riders, half of them going downhill. Basically, I think a 20mph speed limit would gesture at keeping ebikes from running amok and have almost no effect on everybody else.
I’m cool with this as long as they give the 11-mph buffer they give for cars.
November 1, 2019 at 11:38 am #1101012Sunyata
Participant@n18 194022 wrote:
I prefer that it says this about speed limits on sidewalks: “Speed on sidewalks should be limited to 10?15? MPH, unless within 3 Feet from any pedestrian, then the speed limit would be 6 MPH.”
What if said pedestrian is going more than 6 mph? Would these proposed speed limits also apply to pedestrians? When I run, I often run more than 6 mph. May not much more, but still…
November 1, 2019 at 3:06 pm #1101010EasyRider
Participant@Steve O 194023 wrote:
I’m cool with this as long as they give the 11-mph buffer they give for cars.
Don’t forget the surprise Sunday morning buffer deactivations. Those will cost ya
November 4, 2019 at 2:48 pm #1101032mstone
Participant@EasyRider 194019 wrote:
I don’t agree. I’m not a hater. I’ve been riding here for 20 years. I think ebikes make speed limits a good idea. if we’re going to allow vehicles capable of going nearly 30mph on MUPs, vehicles which specifically appeal to and are often operated by individuals lacking experience, speed limits are helpful. Sorry if that offends; with power comes responsibility. A unenforced speed limit of 20mph on a MUPs would affect probably 2% of pedal bike riders, half of them going downhill. Basically, I think a 20mph speed limit would gesture at keeping ebikes from running amok and have almost no effect on everybody else.
We’ve already been repeatedly assured that ebikes can’t speed because classes. So a 20MPH speed limit does absolutely nothing. (Logically it can’t be enforced until someone’s doing 30, which will come up so seldom that there’s zero chance that the police will commit resources to it.) If there’s a serious desire to implement a rule to improve safety, then it needs to mandate taking trail conditions into account (a speed of 15MPH is way too fast for a crowded trail, and a speed of 25MPH doesn’t affect anyone if the trail is empty–I’m much more concerned by things like passing dangerously than by absolute speed). But mandating safe behavior is hard, and slapping a useless speed limit sign on the trail is easy, so we get the useless one.
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