Best innovative thinking behind a e-assist design I’ve seen thus far.
Our Community › Forums › General Discussion › Best innovative thinking behind a e-assist design I’ve seen thus far.
- This topic has 15 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by
mstone.
-
AuthorPosts
-
April 30, 2019 at 9:06 pm #1098127
mstone
Participantsounds like a perpetual motion machine, which is totally practical
April 30, 2019 at 11:57 pm #1098134josh
Participante-fixie
Shoot me now please
May 1, 2019 at 12:11 am #1098135phog
ParticipantThe utmost in the “stealthiest” bike category would be type that have not only the batteries hidden in a slender frame, but eschew the hub motor in favor of a miniature, high performance motor built into the seat’s down tube. In either case, it is an engineering challenge to pack a powerful motor, and the amperage to drive it, into a small package… and a premium is being paid for the “stealth” part.
IF a cyclist is determined to use the boost only in the “startup” and “hill climb” exclusively, AND the regenerative braking charging circuit is very efficient, it may be able to carry on without an external charge.
The weight is a problem; with it pushing 30 pounds, you may have better results riding an exquisite, lively, lightweight $3,000 non e-bike than this $4000+ bike.
For my money, I’d rather leave my ego at the door and get an e-bike at a fraction of the cost, and not try to fool anyone. The cost of the power to charge an e-bike battery is negligible.
I like the innovation though, equipping a bike with a quality, light frame with lightweight, efficient e-bike componentry could provide the best of both worlds.
That hub and the beefier spokes aren’t going to fool the critical eye though, if that’s the game here…..May 1, 2019 at 1:59 am #1098140rcannon100
ParticipantMay 1, 2019 at 2:14 am #1098141jrenaut
ParticipantI love it. The ridiculous $5000 super-niche bikes of today inspire the more reasonable bikes of tomorrow. And really, unless you live in a flat world, riding a fixie is finding the middle ground between “my knees are going to explode” downhill and “I literally can not advance this bicycle any further” uphill. Having a bit of boost means you can ride a taller gear without dying on the uphills.
If advances in ebikes get more people riding fixed, it’s a net gain for humanity
May 1, 2019 at 11:55 am #1098143Sunyata
Participant@phog 190221 wrote:
The weight is a problem; with it pushing 30 pounds, you may have better results riding an exquisite, lively, lightweight $3,000 non e-bike than this $4000+ bike.
Hmm. I have no problem pushing around a 45 pound commuter “analogue” bike on a daily basis. Sure, I am slower on my commuter than on my sub 20-pound gravel race bike, but the point of a commuter bike (IMO) is to be a work horse, not a race horse.
Rule #5. HTFU. Ride the heavy bike. It only makes you faster on the lighter bike.
May 1, 2019 at 12:12 pm #1098147phog
ParticipantI agree with that… I’ve always been a thrifty cyclist myself… but I’m positing that at over $4,000, this e-bike with a diminutive 250-watt motor is placing itself at a price point higher than a most exotic non-ebike. As for the “fixie” aspect, I’d agree that having e-bike power removes much of the need for gearing… a 3-speed would be ideal.
May 1, 2019 at 1:24 pm #1098151josh
Participant@jrenaut 190228 wrote:
I love it. The ridiculous $5000 super-niche bikes of today inspire the more reasonable bikes of tomorrow. And really, unless you live in a flat world, riding a fixie is finding the middle ground between “my knees are going to explode” downhill and “I literally can not advance this bicycle any further” uphill. Having a bit of boost means you can ride a taller gear without dying on the uphills.
If advances in ebikes get more people riding fixed, it’s a net gain for humanity
My annoyance with it lies more in the pseudo-advertising-copy. I really have my doubts that it’s actually a fixed gear, although I was unable to confirm or reject this suspicion looking at the article (only hint is that the article isn’t included in the “Fixies” category). I get that language changes, but using “fixie” or “fixed gear” to describe the aesthetics of something when it’s functionally very different still annoys me. One of the other bikes linked to in this article is described as a “stunningly minimalistic e-fixie” that has “fixie style” handlebars, but “the charge is obtained through an energy recovery sytsem, when going downhill or freewheeling”.
May 1, 2019 at 1:48 pm #1098154bikesnick
Participant@josh 190239 wrote:
My annoyance with it lies more in the pseudo-advertising-copy. I really have my doubts that it’s actually a fixed gear, although I was unable to confirm or reject this suspicion looking at the article (only hint is that the article isn’t included in the “Fixies” category).
Yes. In the second paragraph of the article is this line:
“The Nua Electrica is the stealthiest single-speed e-bike we’ve seen to date …”Many people confuse “single speed” with “fixed gear” or “fixie”.
May 1, 2019 at 1:58 pm #1098156Steve O
Participant@bikesnick 190242 wrote:
“The Nua Electrica is the stealthiest single-speed e-bike we’ve seen to date …”
That’s because the truly stealthiest one cannot be seen.
May 1, 2019 at 6:30 pm #1098168ImaCynic
Participant@phog 190235 wrote:
I agree with that… I’ve always been a thrifty cyclist myself… but I’m positing that at over $4,000, this e-bike with a diminutive 250-watt motor is placing itself at a price point higher than a most exotic non-ebike. As for the “fixie” aspect, I’d agree that having e-bike power removes much of the need for gearing… a 3-speed would be ideal.
The article did mention that much of the cost are from the components choices rather than the drive package itself. I’m sure we all know how quickly that can add up. It also pointed out that there are other bikes using the same system that is half the cost, so this can appeal to a larger crowd. As far as gearing goes, most electric powertrains, including the one used in Tesla, are “single” speed.
May 1, 2019 at 7:18 pm #1098172ImaCynic
Participant@phog 190221 wrote:
The utmost in the “stealthiest” bike category would be type that have not only the batteries hidden in a slender frame, but eschew the hub motor in favor of a miniature, high performance motor built into the seat’s down tube. In either case, it is an engineering challenge to pack a powerful motor, and the amperage to drive it, into a small package… and a premium is being paid for the “stealth” part.
IF a cyclist is determined to use the boost only in the “startup” and “hill climb” exclusively, AND the regenerative braking charging circuit is very efficient, it may be able to carry on without an external charge.
The weight is a problem; with it pushing 30 pounds, you may have better results riding an exquisite, lively, lightweight $3,000 non e-bike than this $4000+ bike.
For my money, I’d rather leave my ego at the door and get an e-bike at a fraction of the cost, and not try to fool anyone. The cost of the power to charge an e-bike battery is negligible.
I like the innovation though, equipping a bike with a quality, light frame with lightweight, efficient e-bike componentry could provide the best of both worlds.
That hub and the beefier spokes aren’t going to fool the critical eye though, if that’s the game here…..There may be a motor that can fit in a seat tube, but I doubt there is a battery of any real capacity that can. Current trend is to hide all the cables on a conventional bike, so why is it okay to let them all hang out on an e-bike? I consider the solution here more elegant than stealth. More importantly, being able to condense 250W into a 3kg drive package, INCLUDING the battery is a rather impressive feat.
I believe the game changer here is allowing the rider to be the battery charger, so if one ever feels the urge to “blow off some steam” on a bike, it would be put into good use here. After all, human, according to the Matrix, makes for an excellent battery.
May 1, 2019 at 8:05 pm #1098174ImaCynic
Participant@josh 190239 wrote:
My annoyance with it lies more in the pseudo-advertising-copy. I really have my doubts that it’s actually a fixed gear, although I was unable to confirm or reject this suspicion looking at the article (only hint is that the article isn’t included in the “Fixies” category). I get that language changes, but using “fixie” or “fixed gear” to describe the aesthetics of something when it’s functionally very different still annoys me. One of the other bikes linked to in this article is described as a “stunningly minimalistic e-fixie” that has “fixie style” handlebars, but “the charge is obtained through an energy recovery sytsem, when going downhill or freewheeling”.
I doubt that this is a fixie as well as fundamentally it would not work, safely. Since this does not appear to be a cycling-centric publication, perhaps the author is unaware of the subtle differences between a fixie and a single-speed.
May 2, 2019 at 4:54 am #1098185Dewey
ParticipantIt won’t work as advertised though. Justin LeMire Elmore posted on the Endless Sphere forum about regen on a ride around hilly Vancouver and got about 11% efficiency on a 7km ride with 10 stops and 77m of elevation change on average generating just 6.5wh or less than 1 wh/km. The Zehus motor in this ebike is a 28v motor with a 20a controller and a 6.8ah/190wh battery. Justin’s motor simulator doesn’t have a 28v motor example but for comparison sake a 24v motor with a 20a controller requiring 480w of peak power when climbing hills consumes about 6wh per km, so run all the time this bikes battery would be drained in 31.6km but even with this regen system keeping the motor turned off and only using it say 25% of the time will discharge the battery eventually as the motor consumes considerably more energy than you might get back using regen. If you like mostly pedalling and don’t want pedal assist just a throttle boost to get up hills a much less expensive option that would give you more torque push up hills would be to use something like a Hill Topper Ranger kit which uses a standard Bafang brand 36v geared front hub motor wheel and costs <$700 with battery. The Zehus motor is an all-in-one hub motor with controller, battery, and motor packed around the hub as in other similar designs like the Copenhagen wheel. They’re not very popular because the heat generated by the motor can fry the controller electronics and because of the limited battery range for the price but have some niche uses, eg folding bikes because there’s no wires strung through to get in the way when folding the frame. Montague use the Copenhagen wheel on their folding bikes in the US and the Zehus on the same bikes when sold in the EU. The fanciest looking ebike I’ve seen using the Zehus motor is the Coco-Mat Penelope made of ash wood.
May 2, 2019 at 6:41 pm #1098223mstone
Participant@ImaCynic 190260 wrote:
I believe the game changer here is allowing the rider to be the battery charger, so if one ever feels the urge to “blow off some steam” on a bike, it would be put into good use here.[/quote]
that part is snake oil
Quote:After all, human, according to the Matrix, makes for an excellent battery.and that was the most ridiculous part of the movie
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.