Cars going off GW Parkway between North Boundary Channel and Trollheim

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  • January 9, 2019 at 2:20 am #920920
    DrP
    Participant

    Every few months I see freshly torn-up turf and mud in the stretch of MVT between Trollheim and the northern end of the boundary channel. Sometimes there is still a car there (or in the river), but often not. I fear the day that the car goes off the parkway and hits a trail user (pedestrian, cyclist or even a scooter). Perhaps NPS is not aware how frequently this happens so that they do not feel the need to modify the roadway or at least install a wall? With that thinking, I figured that if we kept track, we could provide numbers to them. Please add as you either witness the event or the remains.

    So, starting the 2019 count, sometime between 7:30am Friday, 4 January 2018 and 7:30am Monday, 7 January a vehicle clearly left the parkway and entered the trail. That is 1, so far.

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  • January 9, 2019 at 12:47 pm #1093500
    Sunyata
    Participant

    Pictures may help solidify your point to NPS. I know it can be hard to grab a photo, especially early in the morning or late in the evening, but it definitely would help the cause.

    January 9, 2019 at 3:37 pm #1093518
    scoot
    Participant

    @DrP 185137 wrote:

    install a wall?

    Easy. Just tell the current administration that some of the GWMP drivers are immigrants.

    January 9, 2019 at 3:50 pm #1093519
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    I’ve seen the direct aftermath of at least two in the last 2-3 years and I’m seriously baffled about why this happens. Whenever I drive the GWMP through that section I think “what is going on here that would force me off the right side of the road on a right-handed curve with decent sightlines?” I can’t figure it out.

    January 9, 2019 at 4:42 pm #1093522
    dasgeh
    Participant

    @TwoWheelsDC 185176 wrote:

    I’ve seen the direct aftermath of at least two in the last 2-3 years and I’m seriously baffled about why this happens. Whenever I drive the GWMP through that section I think “what is going on here that would force me off the right side of the road on a right-handed curve with decent sightlines?” I can’t figure it out.

    Speed.

    January 9, 2019 at 6:20 pm #1093530
    mstone
    Participant

    @dasgeh 185179 wrote:

    Speed.

    This. Also, if they did add a wall, they’d probably put the trail between the wall and the road, because that’s safer for out-of-control drivers.

    January 9, 2019 at 6:25 pm #1093531
    bobco85
    Participant

    dasgeh is right. Drivers treat the GWMP as a highway, so even though the speed limit is 40, drivers hit 50 and even 60 mph (if not more in some cases).

    On the idea of a wall (not THAT one), the main issue NPS has always had with building stuff is the following word: viewshed. A wall would mess with the viewshed of the Potomac River and surrounding park areas, so that might be a no-go.

    January 9, 2019 at 6:54 pm #1093535
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    Well of course speed is a factor for crashes/incidents all along the GWMP, but this spot and the incidents that happen there are pretty unique and speed on its own can’t explain it. The physics of it just don’t add up…going off the right side of the road in a sweeping right turn is exactly the opposite of what should happen when taking a corner too fast. So what about the road design in this particular area contributes to these incidents? Like it or not, the speed issues aren’t likely to be addressed, but if there’s a road design issue that’s contributing to these issues (maybe the merge from S Arlington Blvd plays a role?), then those seem like the places where NPS may be more willing to take action (in addition to some sort of physical barrier to protect the trail). But if the solution is “people just need to slow down,” well…good luck with that.

    January 9, 2019 at 8:12 pm #1093545
    consularrider
    Participant

    @bobco85 185188 wrote:

    dasgeh is right. Drivers treat the GWMP as a highway, so even though the speed limit is 40, drivers hit 50 and even 60 mph (if not more in some cases).

    On the idea of a wall (not THAT one), the main issue NPS has always had with building stuff is the following word: viewshed. A wall would mess with the viewshed of the Potomac River and surrounding park areas, so that might be a no-go.

    NPS hasr three foot high stone walls along the Parkway in the area, so there is a precedent.

    As far as the cause, I’ve speculated before that the drivers merging in from the S Arlington Blvd/Washington Blvd/Memorial Circle are probably the ones going too fast as they come across two lanes of the GW Parkway and if it is wet or icy they hit the grass and the MVT. Of course, the reports on the incidents never provide that kind of detail.

    January 9, 2019 at 8:27 pm #1093552
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    @consularrider 185203 wrote:

    NPS hasr three foot high stone walls along the Parkway in the area, so there is a precedent.

    My favorite is the wall on 123 eastbound over the GWMP where the GWPM offramps onto 123, which has been hit several times in the last couple of years. Imagine being so bad at driving that you hit a wall on the **inside** of a merge area.

    January 11, 2019 at 12:06 pm #1093658
    Brendan von Buckingham
    Participant

    @TwoWheelsDC 185192 wrote:

    Well of course speed is a factor for crashes/incidents all along the GWMP, but this spot and the incidents that happen there are pretty unique and speed on its own can’t explain it. The physics of it just don’t add up…going off the right side of the road in a sweeping right turn is exactly the opposite of what should happen when taking a corner too fast. So what about the road design in this particular area contributes to these incidents?

    Night time combination of poor lighting and optical illusion. The trail and road are barely separated: no shoulder, faded white line, low curb, no overhead lights. Driver trying to stay to the right on the turn mistakes the bike lane for the right lane of the GWMP. If a car is not following the brakes lights of a car ahead of them, their headlights don’t give them much reaction time to even a small mistake.

    January 11, 2019 at 3:03 pm #1093703
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    @Brendan von Buckingham 185341 wrote:

    Night time combination of poor lighting and optical illusion. The trail and road are barely separated: no shoulder, faded white line, low curb, no overhead lights. Driver trying to stay to the right on the turn mistakes the bike lane for the right lane of the GWMP. If a car is not following the brakes lights of a car ahead of them, their headlights don’t give them much reaction time to even a small mistake.

    Are we talking about the same spot? Also, the times I know where cars have gone off the road here have all been during morning rush hour in essentially normal weather conditions. ::shrug::

    January 11, 2019 at 6:19 pm #1093748
    Brendan von Buckingham
    Participant

    @TwoWheelsDC 185389 wrote:

    Are we talking about the same spot? Also, the times I know where cars have gone off the road here have all been during morning rush hour in essentially normal weather conditions. ::shrug::

    Pretty much yeh, but from this spot . I thought you were talking about finding the remnants of overnight crashes. If it’s daytime though I have to up the Stupid Meter and guess that people are driving while looking at a map on their phone. And they think the trail is an entrance ramp to the Roosevelt Bridge? But that would be off the chart stupid.

    January 11, 2019 at 6:27 pm #1093749
    DrP
    Participant

    @TwoWheelsDC 185389 wrote:

    Are we talking about the same spot? Also, the times I know where cars have gone off the road here have all been during morning rush hour in essentially normal weather conditions. ::shrug::

    I was first commenting on that whole stretch, but most seem to end up where you reference. They may start having issues where Brendan references and I am certain over the years I have seen some there. I think that is about where I saw a dead deer once too. Perhaps that is a cause? Although I have rarely seen deer on this stretch while the same state of twilight I have seen deer on the W&OD and Custis.

    February 5, 2019 at 1:59 am #1095220
    DrP
    Participant

    Okay, I know I started this thread and with a very specific region of the trail, but not too far from there about two weeks ago a car clearly went off the trail, as per the mud tracks. Still near Boundary Channel, but on Columbia Island, so recording that here just to keep track, although this is not the same area. So, count of 1 for the small region between Boundary Channel and Trollheim and a count of 1 for just south of Boundary Channel.

    March 5, 2019 at 1:54 pm #1096418
    DrP
    Participant

    Yesterday a car was in this region, just off the parkway, but still at the top of the hill. No one around. It looked like the remains of an accident to be cleared out later.
    Today there were clear mud tracks of a car sliding down the hill from there and then going up. So, two for the year in this area so far.

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