Tubeless Blowout Overnight?
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hozn.
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October 16, 2017 at 12:28 pm #1076882
TwoWheelsDC
ParticipantWas the tire damaged? Like, maybe the bead failed catastrophically?
October 16, 2017 at 1:11 pm #1076885anomad
ParticipantI’ve had several clinchers pop off over the years, when I didn’t get the bead seated perfectly. But I have never had it happen with tubeless. Granted I only have mountain bikes set up tubeless and they run lower pressure.
You said several weeks ago, so had you put a few rides on the wheel/tire combination before this event?
I would check the tire for damaged bead, max pressure rating of those rims, and for properly installed rim tape that didn’t compromise the ability of the bead to hook into the rim.
October 16, 2017 at 1:12 pm #1076886dplasters
ParticipantBead looked ok, it was early in the morning and I was pretty bitter though – so not the most thorough inspection. I’m going to try and remount/reseal today after work.
Just to clarify the original post, I pumped the tire pressure up from ~50psi to 65/70psi. Schwalbe list the happy place for the tire between 50-80.
I’ve had a tubeless tire lose all its air pressure overnight on me before bad seal somewhere I presume – but blowing the tire off the rim is a first.
*edit – yeah I’ve probably put about 150 miles on the bike sense the service, needed a new bb as well and a newborn makes taking the time to do it all at home seem pretty selfish.
October 16, 2017 at 7:30 pm #1076896hozn
ParticipantI’ve had Hitchinson tires blow off the rim — e.g. Hutchinson Pirhana at 70psi. I have no idea why I was running 70psi; I think that was within a range recommended for use with tubes.
I have had good experience with the G-One Speed. I have never run more than 60psi on those tires, though. Wonder if the 80psi is also a value recommended when using tubes? Usually tires have different max values for tubeless, though not always stated. (I would think Schwalbe would list their pressures as tubeless-specific, though, as they’re pushing that.)
October 16, 2017 at 11:20 pm #1076902ParticipantAfter much inspection……. I have no idea. Didn’t have any tubes that were of proper size for a 30mm tire. They should arrive tomorrow and I’ll run it with tubes for a bit for my own sanity. Never had a flat with them, so I’ve never needed them. Don’t judge me.
I didn’t have too hard of a time taking the tire on/off and wasn’t even close to getting it to inflate with a standard pump, so perhaps its a touch loose for the rim? The rim tape job is less than LBS quality in my mind. Given that I’m paying quite a bit of money for the labor and I bought the tape there you’d think they’d do more than a single layer and make sure the end was stuck down well :rolleyes:
If i choose to get my own air compressor – https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TDNKBMC/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1ZIXX7E09BEZ7&colid=NV6WT5PNMMU2
Anyone know if that will suffice? It happens to jive well with my golfing habit and is popular to grip/regrip golf clubs as well…
October 17, 2017 at 2:34 am #1076909ParticipantThose are s’posed to be really nice air compressors. They are popular for feeding high pressure compressors and pressure boosters in the high pressure airgun world, which is another hobby I participate in. I’m still hand pumping in that world. I have had a few different air compressors from the big box stores over the years though, nothing special. There are a bunch of home brew bead seater tank videos on youtube for doing tubeless if you’re so inclined.
“They” say all tire and rim combinations are kind of an experiment. So I guess that individual tire and individual rim don’t get along. I’d want to make darn sure it hooked up properly even with a tube after that experience. No one wants their ears ringing at any time, much less 5 am.
October 17, 2017 at 10:44 pm #1076923ParticipantYeah, if the tires just go easily into the rims, that probably is a dangerous combo. They should be hard — almost hard enough to need tools, probably? My G-One Speeds are a tight fit on DT Swiss rims, though I think I can get them on without tools.
October 17, 2017 at 10:57 pm #1076924ParticipantWelp, after slapping it on with a tube the tire is messed up. I couldn’t get a section of the tire to sit where it should. The bead was just too low and you could see that the tire wasn’t sitting perfectly round on one section of the rim. As to if it was like that all along, or the blow-off caused it, the world may never know.
Winter is coming. Back to Conti GP 4 Season 32mm. My OCD is in overdrive having mis-matched front and rear tires for the time being :rolleyes:
October 18, 2017 at 1:20 am #1076928Participant@dplasters 166698 wrote:
Welp, after slapping it on with a tube the tire is messed up. I couldn’t get a section of the tire to sit where it should. The bead was just too low and you could see that the tire wasn’t sitting perfectly round on one section of the rim. As to if it was like that all along, or the blow-off caused it, the world may never know.
Winter is coming. Back to Conti GP 4 Season 32mm. My OCD is in overdrive having mis-matched front and rear tires for the time being :rolleyes:
You sure you pumped it up hard enough? Some tires, especially with tubes on tubeless rims, will not snap their beads out of the center channel until pressure gets quite high. (You can then lower it down to something sane after they snap in.) Also try spraying the beads with soapy water or furniture polish.
October 18, 2017 at 12:28 pm #1076931Vicegrip
Participant@hozn 166703 wrote:
You sure you pumped it up hard enough? Some tires, especially with tubes on tubeless rims, will not snap their beads out of the center channel until pressure gets quite high. (You can then lower it down to something sane after they snap in.) Also try spraying the beads with soapy water or furniture polish.
Race cars sometimes have a problem with tires rotating on the rim. We use hairspray* as a lube while mounting the tires on the rims. Hair spray is real slick when wet and real “grippy” when it dries. This might help with tubeless.
*Aquanet unscented is cheap and does not smell like Sunday church luncheon.
October 18, 2017 at 12:44 pm #1076933huskerdont
ParticipantYou people are seriously not helping in my long, slow process of considering switching to tubeless. Or maybe you are, and I’ll stick with tubes.
October 18, 2017 at 2:42 pm #1076941Harry Meatmotor
Participant@huskerdont 166708 wrote:
You people are seriously not helping in my long, slow process of considering switching to tubeless. Or maybe you are, and I’ll stick with tubes.
Just my personal (mildly cranky) opinion:
- Tubeless MTB = FTW!
- Tubeless Road (<28mm tire) = no f-ing way
- Tubeless all-road gravel grinder gobbledygook (>30mm tire, less than 60PSI) = prolly maybe
- Tubeless CX = only if you’re bringing pit wheels or have someone working the pit
- Commuting (any tire size) = no f-ing way*
* I can imagine getting a Miller High Life induced flat on the way to work, at 6:12am, in the dark, 40F (perceived temp: -38F), being covered in sealant, trying to wrestle a super tight bead, breaking two tire levers, etc. That’s enough to make me skip that biz.
October 18, 2017 at 2:58 pm #1076944Participant@Harry Meatmotor 166716 wrote:
* I can imagine getting a Miller High Life induced flat on the way to work, at 6:12am, in the dark, 40F (perceived temp: -38F), being covered in sealant, trying to wrestle a super tight bead, breaking two tire levers, etc. That’s enough to make me skip that biz.
2 of my 3 bikes are tubeless and both tubeless bikes get used for commuting. But I use tubeless ready rims and wheels, so on my gravel bike, the tubeless tires (Schwalbe G-Ones on Easton EC-90 wheels) go on easier than any other set of tires I’ve owned. On my road bike, the tubeless tires (Schwalbe Pro 1s on Ultegra wheels) require less effort than most other tubed tires I’ve used. Also, about the two worst punctures I’ve had were on my tubeless bikes (a coincidence), but in both cases I was able to complete my rides without stopping because I was running tubeless. If they’d been tubed tires, they’d have been immediate blowouts.
Just my experience though.
October 18, 2017 at 3:12 pm #1076946
bentbike33Participant@Harry Meatmotor 166716 wrote:
Just my personal (mildly cranky) opinion:
- Tubeless MTB = FTW!
- Tubeless Road (<28mm tire) = no f-ing way
- Tubeless all-road gravel grinder gobbledygook (>30mm tire, less than 60PSI) = prolly maybe
- Tubeless CX = only if you’re bringing pit wheels or have someone working the pit
- Commuting (any tire size) = no f-ing way*
* I can imagine getting a Miller High Life induced flat on the way to work, at 6:12am, in the dark, 40F (perceived temp: -38F), being covered in sealant, trying to wrestle a super tight bead, breaking two tire levers, etc. That’s enough to make me skip that biz.
These things have worked really well for me on holes in tubeless tires (in my case, Schwalbe Pro-1 28mm) that are too big for the sealant to handle. I carry this kit on rides along with a small bottle of sealant in case of a really bad puncture.
October 18, 2017 at 3:32 pm #1076948Participant@Harry Meatmotor 166716 wrote:
Just my personal (mildly cranky) opinion:
- Tubeless MTB = FTW!
- Tubeless Road (<28mm tire) = no f-ing way
- Tubeless all-road gravel grinder gobbledygook (>30mm tire, less than 60PSI) = prolly maybe
- Tubeless CX = only if you’re bringing pit wheels or have someone working the pit
- Commuting (any tire size) = no f-ing way*
* I can imagine getting a Miller High Life induced flat on the way to work, at 6:12am, in the dark, 40F (perceived temp: -38F), being covered in sealant, trying to wrestle a super tight bead, breaking two tire levers, etc. That’s enough to make me skip that biz.
I generally agree with points 1-3 here. I don’t think tubeless < 28mm provides a lot of value. (And contrary to my former opinion on this, I also don't see any reason to run tires smaller than 28mm.) On 28mm I run 65f/70r usually; less works fine, but that seems to be a sweet spot for rolling speed (?) I’ve never raced CX seriously, so I can’t comment on that. I assume issue is burping? I’ve never had tires burp on me, but I run bigger tires now, so I think my usage is more “gravel-grinder” than “CX”. For point 5, I’m of the opposite opinion. There is nothing worse than changing tires in the winter, I agree, which is why I run tubeless on my commuter. I have not had a flat yet on my commuter that didn’t self-seal and I carry the plugs that bentbike33 mentions above for those cases where it’s too big for sealant. (I think that’s going on 2 years, but maybe a bit less?) I did recently have a puncture (riding off-road) that was too big for even plugs to handle well, but that was quite an anomaly. I did have to put in a tube. But I don’t own any wheel/tire combos that can’t be removed/installed with standard levers. I have had terrible wheels before (e.g. Easton EA50) that needed a tire jack for mounting tires, but those weren’t tubeless-specific. Generally, I have not experienced a significant difficulty with mounting tubeless tires on tubeless rims — or, really, tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims. I have a number of data points, but it’s also very possible I’ve just been very lucky.
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