The 2017 Comfort Map Is Out!
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- This topic has 34 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 7 months ago by
Tim Kelley.
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AuthorPosts
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October 24, 2016 at 9:40 pm #1059302
Judd
ParticipantAre these going to be mass mailed again? I think that’s how I got my last one.
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October 25, 2016 at 2:32 pm #1059313Tim Kelley
Participant@Judd 147776 wrote:
Are these going to be mass mailed again?
No, we don’t have the budget to print and mass mail 115,000 copies, but if you visit the page linked above, there are directions where you can have one mailed to you individually for free.
October 25, 2016 at 2:36 pm #1059314Tim Kelley
ParticipantSo it’s been almost 18 hours and there haven’t been any comments or critiques?! We had 125 posts on the first release…what’s up? Who are you people?
October 25, 2016 at 3:42 pm #1059322TwoWheelsDC
ParticipantOne critique I have with this map is that it doesn’t really focus on where people might be riding to once they move off the map*. Obviously, this is meant to be an Arlington map, but if you’re riding on Wilson or Rt. 50, say, and you cross into Fairfax (to go to a destination like Seven Corners), the road quickly goes from “less comfortable” to “basically horrifying.” Also, there are several places that show decent bike infrastructure or comfortable routes along Arlington’s border, suggesting there is a destination to get to, but those routes lead to nothing (Chesterbrook is a good example). So without better regional context, it would be difficult for a lot of people to use this to plan a route to destinations outside the county, or from outside the county in.
TL;DR: To make this a more effective planning map, I think it would be better to at least give the user some indication of what Arlington’s bike routes connect to in surrounding jurisdictions.
*The separate bike map sort of does this, so I think it would be nice to give some idea of how the comfort zones change once the border is crossed.
October 25, 2016 at 3:45 pm #1059323Tim Kelley
Participant@TwoWheelsDC 147801 wrote:
One critique I have with this map is that it doesn’t really focus on where people might be riding to once they move off the map. Obviously, this is meant to be an Arlington map, but if you’re riding on Wilson or Rt. 50, say, and you cross into Fairfax (to go to a destination like Seven Corners), the road quickly goes from “less comfortable” to “basically horrifying.” Also, there are several places that show decent bike infrastructure or comfortable routes along Arlington’s border, suggesting there is a destination to get to, but those routes lead to nothing (Chesterbrook is a good example). So without better regional context, it would be difficult for a lot of people to use this to plan a route to destinations outside the county, or from outside the county in.
TL;DR: To make this a more effective planning map, I think it would be better to at least give the user some indication of what Arlington’s bike routes connect to in surrounding jurisdictions.
So you’re thinking that some sort of “regional” map, which would require other jurisdictions deciding that having a level of comfort map, would be a good idea? I like it!
October 25, 2016 at 3:49 pm #1059324Judd
ParticipantI would put a steep hill arrow on the 9th street south access to the W&OD. I just had a convo with Komorebi last week about the time she didn’t gear down before starting up the hill.
I find the 9th st s crossing at Walter Reed in need of a caution arrow. Lots of lanes and also traffic turning off the Pike changes the landscape quickly.
I’d change S. Courthouse from the Pike to Sixth St S to most comfortable now that it has Nike lanes. I’d change the portion from 6th S to 2nd S to less comfy based on the narrow lanes and heavy bus traffic. That stretch is about as comfy as the Pike for me.
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October 25, 2016 at 3:56 pm #1059325lordofthemark
Participant@TwoWheelsDC 147801 wrote:
One critique I have with this map is that it doesn’t really focus on where people might be riding to once they move off the map*. Obviously, this is meant to be an Arlington map, but if you’re riding on Wilson or Rt. 50, say, and you cross into Fairfax (to go to a destination like Seven Corners), the road quickly goes from “less comfortable” to “basically horrifying.” Also, there are several places that show decent bike infrastructure or comfortable routes along Arlington’s border, suggesting there is a destination to get to, but those routes lead to nothing (Chesterbrook is a good example). So without better regional context, it would be difficult for a lot of people to use this to plan a route to destinations outside the county, or from outside the county in.
TL;DR: To make this a more effective planning map, I think it would be better to at least give the user some indication of what Arlington’s bike routes connect to in surrounding jurisdictions.
*The separate bike map sort of does this, so I think it would be nice to give some idea of how the comfort zones change once the border is crossed.
Eh, that is a general issue – do you do estimate comfort by short segment, or the entire A to B route?
For example. When I used to live in Annandale, I wanted to ride along LRT towards Alexandria. There are a few segments along LRT that are low stress – easy to ride service lanes or frontage roads, for example. Some segments higher stress – only choice is a problematic MUP, or a narrow sidewalk. Then there were at least a couple of spots where the only option was to take the general travel lane on a road with a posted speed limit of 45MPH.
To get all the way to Landmark on LRT was definitely high stress. However someone who just needed to go a short way along LRT, that happened to only include the low stress segments, could have had a low stress ride.
Since there are so many potential trip endpoints, I don’t think a map like this can tell you how stressful the overall ride is going to be. If you can’t figure it out yourself, you need some kind of app, or advice from others. I think it best a comfort map tell me the comfort level of a particular segment.
Now of course it will be more useful when neighboring jurisdictions have similar maps. ISTR hearing about Alexandria working on one?
October 25, 2016 at 3:57 pm #1059326TwoWheelsDC
Participant@Tim Kelley 147802 wrote:
So you’re thinking that some sort of “regional” map, which would require other jurisdictions deciding that having a level of comfort map, would be a good idea? I like it!
Well, a regional map would be ideal, but at the very least a more robust online version of the map that provided a bit more information on some key destinations outside Arlington’s borders and information on any comfort level changes that occur as one transitions from one jurisdiction to another.
October 25, 2016 at 4:01 pm #1059327TwoWheelsDC
Participant@lordofthemark 147804 wrote:
Eh, that is a general issue – do you do estimate comfort by short segment, or the entire A to B route?
For example. When I used to live in Annandale, I wanted to ride along LRT towards Alexandria. There are a few segments along LRT that are low stress – easy to ride service lanes or frontage roads, for example. Some segments higher stress – only choice is a problematic MUP, or a narrow sidewalk. Then there were at least a couple of spots where the only option was to take the general travel lane on a road with a posted speed limit of 45MPH.
To get all the way to Landmark on LRT was definitely high stress. However someone who just needed to go a short way along LRT, that happened to only include the low stress segments, could have had a low stress ride.
Since there are so many potential trip endpoints, I don’t think a map like this can tell you how stressful the overall ride is going to be. If you can’t figure it out yourself, you need some kind of app, or advice from others. I think it best a comfort map tell me the comfort level of a particular segment.
Now of course it will be more useful when neighboring jurisdictions have similar maps. ISTR hearing about Alexandria working on one?
What I mean is, instead of a cutoff right at county lines, give some indication of how comfortable a given segment is as you’re leaving the country. Going back to Wilson, I think having the orange line transition to grey as you hit the border would give the user a sense that the comfort level of that road changes once you get outside the county. If you didn’t know better, you might assume that a route has the same comfort level in Fairfax (or Alexandria) that it does in Arlington, but that isn’t always the case.
October 25, 2016 at 4:15 pm #1059328Tim Kelley
Participant@TwoWheelsDC 147806 wrote:
What I mean is, instead of a cutoff right at county lines, give some indication of how comfortable a given segment is as you’re leaving the country. Going back to Wilson, I think having the orange line transition to grey as you hit the border would give the user a sense that the comfort level of that road changes once you get outside the county. If you didn’t know better, you might assume that a route has the same comfort level in Fairfax (or Alexandria) that it does in Arlington, but that isn’t always the case.
We actually considered adding map monsters. Alexandria, DC, FAIRFAX?? Yar, there be dragons.
October 25, 2016 at 4:16 pm #1059330Tim Kelley
Participant@Judd 147803 wrote:
I would put a steep hill arrow on the 9th street south access to the W&OD. I just had a convo with Komorebi last week about the time she didn’t gear down before starting up the hill.
I find the 9th st s crossing at Walter Reed in need of a caution arrow. Lots of lanes and also traffic turning off the Pike changes the landscape quickly.
I’d change S. Courthouse from the Pike to Sixth St S to most comfortable now that it has Nike lanes. I’d change the portion from 6th S to 2nd S to less comfy based on the narrow lanes and heavy bus traffic. That stretch is about as comfy as the Pike for me.
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Thanks for the suggestions!
October 25, 2016 at 5:08 pm #1059340bobco85
ParticipantI think the map looks greatly improved from last year, so I only have a few points of criticism. FYI to all: make sure you check out the back page of the comfort map, too, as it also looks great.
In general, these are the things I noticed:
- The shadows cast by some of the lines helps them stand out, but sometimes they overlap in weird ways (just north of Patrick Henry Dr/16th St N) or create the sense of an overpass instead of an intersection (N Fillmore St/Lorcom Ln)
- I am echoing others on this: it would be very useful to see a short extension of all roads/trails into surrounding jurisdictions (Rock Creek Trail, Potomac Yard Trail, Capital Crescent Trail, C&O Canal Towpath). Right now, it looks like the W&OD Trail and Mount Vernon Trail both end before hitting the county line.
- I like the detail of only having the darker outline on the side(s) of the street that has the bike lane when only one side has the bike lane (Wilson Blvd and Clarendon Blvd in Clarendon have the outline on one side whereas Barton St has the outline on both sides). Could sharrows be marked with a dashed outline?
Minor quibbles or improvements:
- The path in Long Bridge Park is absent
- Connector Rd from Boundary Channel Dr to the Pentagon Metro entrance should be included
- There should be arrows on more of the neighborhood streets leading out of the Lubber Run Park Trail (3rd St N, 2nd Rd N, 2nd St N, 1st Rd N)
- There should be arrows on 9th St S leading from the W&OD Trail
- There should not be arrows at the Bluemont Junction Trail/Kensington St crossing (it’s nearly flat)
- In the Somewhat Comfortable section (back page), the image shows a car buzzing a pink cyclist who is riding on the sharrows
- In the Least Comfortable section (back page), it should say “pink” instead of “red”
- In the Route Colors and Markings section (back page), the speech balloons don’t all point to people, and I wonder about having a “Share the road” balloon being spoken by someone in a car (presumably at a cyclist, something many of us have had yelled at us)
October 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm #1059341kcb203
ParticipantI’d downgrade the Roosevelt Bridge crossing. It’s the scariest bike route in the area, even though it’s separated from car traffic. The path is very narrow and the barriers are very low, both to the cars on one side and the 40′ plunge to the water on the other.
October 25, 2016 at 5:31 pm #1059343Tim Kelley
Participant@kcb203 147821 wrote:
I’d downgrade the Roosevelt Bridge crossing. It’s the scariest bike route in the area, even though it’s separated from car traffic. The path is very narrow and the barriers are very low, both to the cars on one side and the 40′ plunge to the water on the other.
It was considered, however we made the decision to not rate off street trails, as this mostly pertains to the comfort of riding with vehicular traffic, and not the actual width or hilliness of a path. It would also add a whole other layer of colors and would make for a very busy map and legend.
October 25, 2016 at 5:35 pm #1059344Tim Kelley
Participant@bobco85 147820 wrote:
I think the map looks greatly improved from last year, so I only have a few points of criticism. FYI to all: make sure you check out the back page of the comfort map, too, as it also looks great.
In general, these are the things I noticed:
- The shadows cast by some of the lines helps them stand out, but sometimes they overlap in weird ways (just north of Patrick Henry Dr/16th St N) or create the sense of an overpass instead of an intersection (N Fillmore St/Lorcom Ln)
- I am echoing others on this: it would be very useful to see a short extension of all roads/trails into surrounding jurisdictions (Rock Creek Trail, Potomac Yard Trail, Capital Crescent Trail, C&O Canal Towpath). Right now, it looks like the W&OD Trail and Mount Vernon Trail both end before hitting the county line.
- I like the detail of only having the darker outline on the side(s) of the street that has the bike lane when only one side has the bike lane (Wilson Blvd and Clarendon Blvd in Clarendon have the outline on one side whereas Barton St has the outline on both sides). Could sharrows be marked with a dashed outline?
Minor quibbles or improvements:
- The path in Long Bridge Park is absent
- Connector Rd from Boundary Channel Dr to the Pentagon Metro entrance should be included
- There should be arrows on more of the neighborhood streets leading out of the Lubber Run Park Trail (3rd St N, 2nd Rd N, 2nd St N, 1st Rd N)
- There should be arrows on 9th St S leading from the W&OD Trail
- There should not be arrows at the Bluemont Junction Trail/Kensington St crossing (it’s nearly flat)
- In the Somewhat Comfortable section (back page), the image shows a car buzzing a pink cyclist who is riding on the sharrows
- In the Least Comfortable section (back page), it should say “pink” instead of “red”
- In the Route Colors and Markings section (back page), the speech balloons don’t all point to people, and I wonder about having a “Share the road” balloon being spoken by someone in a car (presumably at a cyclist, something many of us have had yelled at us)
Thanks–some of these are good suggestions!
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