Xtracycle Edgerunner w Bosch moter vs. Yuba Spicy Curry?

Having ridden both Bosch bikes (an Edgerunner, a hybrid, and a hunting fatbike [what?]) and Bionix retrofit Edgerunners, I prefer the Bosch, but understand why someone might shy away from it (even aside from cost!) I like the way it works with my biomechanics—the bike feels more responsive, more ready, and more like an extension of myself than a machine I’m trying to control by working the pedals (in other words, more like a bike than a car)—as well as the way the electronics are integrated into the frame and the power of the motor. However, I’m not as much of a fan of the limited gearing (means you’re more dependent on the motor) or the proprietary, perhaps overly integrated, nature of the electronics. It seems a bit Apple Computer-y, like the PowerBook batteries that are specially shaped to the cavities of your laptop but can’t be changed. Oh yeah, and I’ve seen the number on the price tag and am not sure if I can count that high. I know it’s cheaper than a new car, I know it’s more practical than one if you live in the urban core, but…

All opinions are my own, not my employer’s, your milage may vary, battery life dependent on charge frequency and use, etc.

Welcome to the world of family biking! Along with here and kidical mass (thanks jrenaut! KM-Arl is the most updated these days), the DC Family Biking FB group is a good resource for family-bike-related questions.

As to your question original question, it seems that you’re asking two separate things: 1) you’ve settle on buying a long-tail,* but you want to know what brand to buy; and 2) you know you want electric assist (wise choice but you want to know what system. The questions are interconnected, because some bikes can come prebuilt with certain motors, but not entirely, because you can add e-assist systems to many bikes aftermarket.

To 1) I’m with BicycleSpace that Yuba, at least in the past, has been lower quality. And I have a Yuba, from BicycleSpace (they’re an awesome store and they fixed my bike up, but with little help from Yuba). Someone likened them to the Ikea of cargo bikes, and I think that’s accurate. Plus, the Mundo has a big back wheel, so the weight is higher than with the Edgerunner, which is harder to deal with. That said, I haven’t ridden a Spicy Curry. Some reviews I’ve read say that it’s much better built than other Yubas, but people are wondering how they’ll stand the test of time.

You may also want to look into a Bike Friday Haul-a-Day (looks funny, but cool options) or a Surly Big Dummy (probably better if you’re not always carrying kids). Neither comes with e-assist, so you’d have to retrofit.

TL;DR – Edgerunners are awesome, avoid Yuba Mundo, the Spicy Curry might be a good purchase. There are more options if you’re willing to retrofit

2) E-assist is a fast topic that I don’t pretend to understand, but I’ve had a number of e-assist bikes, including systems in the front wheel and in the rear wheel, and predictive v. just-give-me-the-boost systems. Rear v. front – eh, who cares. Predictive (like Bionx which helps more when you pedal harder) v. just-boost (whenever you pedal you get the max of the level you’ve set the system on) – I like the latter. I got e-assist because I want help, and if I want less help, I can turn the level down or just coast. I find with Bionx that I’m just spinning up to 8th-gear all the time, then I have to remember to down shift before I stop, which sometimes I forget. It’s just annoying. But, the annoyance is tiny compared to the awesomeness of having e-assist. There are companies that make all kinds of these systems that have been around long enough to be reliable.

Then there are the crank-based systems, like what’s on the Spicy Curry and the newest Edgerunner. I’ve never ridden one, but I’ve read reviews that make me think they are amazingly awesome, especially for hills with load. Bosch has been making them and selling them in Europe for long enough to be reliable. But they are crazy expensive.

Edgerunners, Mundos and Spicy Currys can be bought off the shelf with e-assist systems. For retrofitting, you should go through a shop that specializes in e-assist. BicycleSpace can help you with Bionx, and they are an awesome shop, but I don’t really like Bionx. Hybrid Pedals in Arlington and the Green Commuter in Takoma Park are the go-to for e-assist help. (I had a bad experience with TGC, but other family bikers love them).

TL;DR – if you have the dough, I’d definitely recommend the crank-based system; otherwise, if you are willing to retrofit, I’d go with a just-boost system; however, if you want something that comes with the bike and don’t want to spend for crank-based, Bionx is great and some people love it.

*There are other kinds of cargo bikes – most notably mid-tails (shorter than long-tails, but basically the same) and box bikes. If you want to get into that discussion, we have lots of opinions.

@chris_s 124133 wrote:

Kidical Massive is going to be one amazing Family Biking Show-and-Tell. I expect box bikes, long tails, mid tails, trail-a-bikes, weehoos, trailers, front seats, back seats and kids-on-own-bikes.

The real question is whether we will finally see a Madsen.

There are rumors of another ABCs of family biking (this is last year’s) in October in DC. No details yet.

Happy to help.

Does BicycleSpace have the new Xtracycle in stock? I didn’t realize that. I may have to test it out. They are an excellent shop. I would feel very confident buying from them, and especially buying from such trusted brands (Xtracycle and Bosch).

So, not to engage in thread necromancy, but between giving tours of the steepest hills on CUA’s campus and meeting with Ross, the founder of Xtracycle…

—The Bosch system rewards high cadence. Ross was pretty explicit about this when I talked to him, and I sure noticed it when taking three mostly ruly kids up the hill towards Marist and Fort Totten. If you spin, the electric motor and its “smart assist” put out the most power, but when mashing, the motor just starts grinding, forcing you to drop gear after gear. IANAEngineer, but I suspect this is a speed vs. torque issue—spin fast, and the motor keeps up, grind and it grinds. Of course, I find out after the fact that you can get smaller cogs for the Bosch system to help keep your cadence up if you live in a hilly area, like…well, five out of DC’s eight wards.

—The hardest part of riding an e-assist bike, IMO, is getting the motor to engage. It’s more of a problem with the Bionx system, IME (I had a very memorable incident while hauling the Bikespace monkey wagon speaker system when my motor went to sleep before I had to climb a short incline, forcing me to walk/haul the bike up the hill because the motor wouldn’t kick on without a couple pedal revolutions—which, given the weight and gearing, I couldn’t actually manage while also keeping the bike upright), but even intuitive assist mechanisms like the Bosch or Faraday take a bit of pedaling to kick in. Normally, that’s not too much of a problem, so long as you remember to keep the gearing low and trust the assist, but when trying to start up at an intersection without loosing your balance, it’s a trick.

—On a not completely related note, it’s much harder to carry adults, especially cyclists, than kids. Kids don’t countersteer or lean into turns; they have the whole “sack of potatoes” thing down. I had to consciously fight my usual cyclist instincts and practice my Zen while in the passenger seat.

@Tim Kelley 126129 wrote:

My experience with the Bionix has been different. Perhaps the one I’ve used is newer/different or higher powered? It takes less than half a pedal rotation for it to kick in. I’ve noticed what you mean about grinding–if I’m starting in the hardest gear (on an 1×10 drivetrain) from a dead stop on a 80lbs bike. Otherwise I’ve occasionally had my foot on the pedal at a stoplight and felt the bike accidentally lurch forward simply as I rested my foot on the pedal too heavily (while the bike is at it’s full level of assist).

I was under the impression that Bionx was set so the motor would not kick in unless the bike was moving — standard is that the bike has to be moving 3mph, but you can adjust that down to 1/2 mph.

Bionx also has a “boost button” that helps with the grinding issue. But that’s the only thing that I like about Bionx v other e-assist systems I’ve tried.