Underpass of Eternal Darknesss

This topic has 69 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 5 months ago by KLizotte.

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April 4, 2014 at 9:01 pm #997817

Steve O
Participant

Continued:
@Tim Kelley 81574 wrote:

Pro-Tip: It doesn’t work when you report it to the wrong people!

I assume you took it to VDOT then? What’d they say?

@rcannon100 81575 wrote:

A good civil servant will ALWAYS help a citizen get to the right people. We dont expect citizens to comprehend the absurdities of bureaucratic hallways.

@Tim Kelley 81576 wrote:

No need to thank me, I’m just doing my job.

@baiskeli 81580 wrote:

What would a business do in that situation?

April 4, 2014 at 9:03 pm #997818

Steve O
Participant

@Tim Kelley 81574 wrote:

Pro-Tip: It doesn’t work when you report it to the wrong people!

I assume you took it to VDOT then? What’d they say?

Dave Goodman is the wrong person?
The County Board being notified are the wrong people?
The guy in charge of streetlights is the wrong person?
The Arlington County app is the wrong place?
Parks Department are the wrong people?
Being an active member of the citizen’s Bicycle Advisory Committee and raising it on multiple occasions in our meetings, attended by staff, is the wrong place?
If all those are wrong, then who the f*&^$k is right, and how am I supposed to know that?

Why is it my responsibility to figure out how Arlington County staff needs to interact with VDOT staff to accomplish some sort of project that requires multiple jurisdictions? Is it my responsibility to do staff’s job? The whole point of the Arlington app is to give citizens the ability to report issues without having to understand the intestines of government. Or even worse, have to do their job for them, which is what you are suggesting, if I’m not mistaken.

But, I have, in fact, spent some time learning about this. However, to be fair, after a certain level of fatigue set in, I gave up. Feel free to pick it up where I left off. (And I would also appreciate not being condescended to with “I assume you took it to VDOT then?”)

From what I have learned, the lights are ArlCo’s to maintain, but the bridge is VDOT’s. They won’t let us touch their bridge without their permission. Their permission requires some sort of engineering study. They want ArlCo to pay for the study. ArlCo says they don’t have the money. I can’t remember anymore, but it may require Dominion to get involved, too (no, I have not contacted them). Also, the streetlights guy tends to want to slough this off onto Parks, and Parks doesn’t really want to have to deal with it either. Hence the lights sit there with no one taking any action, ever, to fix them.

That’s how bureaucracy works, because they are trying to answer the wrong question.
The question is not, “How do we fix these lights?”
The more appropriate question is, “How do we provide safe and adequate lighting to the users of the trail at this spot?”

That’s a different question, and is more likely to result in creative solutions instead of bureaucratic gridlock.

April 4, 2014 at 9:05 pm #997819

Steve O
Participant

Continued
@Geoff 81651 wrote:

Fascinating. An engineering study is needed to change a light bulb.

Granted it may be more that the light bulb in this case but still, even if it is just the bulb, sounds like a study is needed.

@rcannon100 81652 wrote:

If I do the study, will they change the light bulb?

I already have a working title for the report:

The Impact of Driving in the Dark Through an Underpass Going Downhill Involving Two 90 Degree Turns

or

The Life You Save May Be Your Own

or

How Many Virginia Govt Employees Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb

or

The Correlation Between Lame Excuses About The Intersection of Doom and Changing a Light Bulb

April 4, 2014 at 9:11 pm #997821

Steve O
Participant

@Geoff 81651 wrote:

Fascinating. An engineering study is needed to change a light bulb.

Granted it may be more that the light bulb in this case but still, even if it is just the bulb, sounds like a study is needed.

It’s not just the bulbs. The entire lighting and electrical systems are shot. To replace all the wiring and install new fixtures requires drilling into the bridge or something and probably requires some sort of interaction with Dominion, etc. That’s where the bureaucracy gets stuck in their mental box and bogged down.

April 7, 2014 at 1:51 pm #997907

Tim Kelley
Participant

@Steve O 81663 wrote:

From what I have learned, the lights are ArlCo’s to maintain, but the bridge is VDOT’s. They won’t let us touch their bridge without their permission. Their permission requires some sort of engineering study. They want ArlCo to pay for the study. ArlCo says they don’t have the money. I can’t remember anymore, but it may require Dominion to get involved, too (no, I have not contacted them). Also, the streetlights guy tends to want to slough this off onto Parks, and Parks doesn’t really want to have to deal with it either. Hence the lights sit there with no one taking any action, ever, to fix them.

Excellent recap and thanks for the historical background. It’s easy to see why you’d be frustrated as you’ve obviously dug into the issue. When was it that you learned all this? If it’s been awhile, perhaps things have changed? And is it the same situation with VDOT at the Custis Underpass/I-66 as at the Four Mile Run Connector and Glebe?

What can the Forum and the BikeArlington outreach team do to help solve the “How do we provide safe and adequate lighting to the users of the trail at this spot?” question?

April 7, 2014 at 1:58 pm #997909

consularrider
Participant

Well, at least we don’t have to worry about the lights being out on the 4MRT bridges from Rte 1 to the GW Pkwy for a couple months.

April 7, 2014 at 3:25 pm #997928

Vicegrip
Participant

@Tim Kelley 81760 wrote:

Excellent recap and thanks for the historical background. It’s easy to see why you’d be frustrated as you’ve obviously dug into the issue. When was it that you learned all this? If it’s been awhile, perhaps things have changed? And is it the same situation with VDOT at the Custis Underpass/I-66 as at the Four Mile Run Connector and Glebe?

What can the Forum and the BikeArlington outreach team do to help solve the “How do we provide safe and adequate lighting to the users of the trail at this spot?” question?

This is a question you need to answer not ask. I allways asumed you and your office was tasked to improve and promote biking. This would also entail your being an knowlage concentrator Have the answers or have the know how of what where and who to go to. Once that is established follow up and follow through. Something important like no lights on a section of what is our rt 66 is important In our car focused world we need someone that will lift the rug up when this kind of thing gets swept under in a fit of finger pointing

April 7, 2014 at 3:26 pm #997929

bobco85
Participant

Just an idea that popped into my head, but what if we tried adding lights in a different kind of way? That is, a way that doesn’t involve installation on the bridge itself, thus avoiding any conflicts with VDOT and removing a step in the bureaucratic process.

My idea: use ground recessed LED lights that could even be connected to a solar panel placed nearby. They could be placed on both sides of the trail to give the appearance of an airport runway or walkways used in movie theaters.

Combined with reflective paint for the center yellow line, this would allow trail users to clearly see where the trail is and would also slightly light up other trail-users. Because they are recessed, the lights would also withstand the impact of any trail maintenance vehicles driving over top of them. They would also look a lot nicer than the ugly yellow/orange lights typically used in underpasses around here.

This site shows the best example of the lighting that I have found so far (there are probably much better ones out there):
http://www.archiexpo.com/prod/l-l-luce-light/recessed-exterior-in-ground-lights-led-54167-1037633.html

On top of everything, if this idea works for the Underpass of Eternal Darkness (this keeps making me think of a similarly-titled Gamecube game), perhaps it would also work for other underpasses such as those on 4MR.

April 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm #997931

Tim Kelley
Participant

@Vicegrip 81782 wrote:

I allways asumed you and your office was tasked to improve and promote biking. This would also entail your being an knowlage concentrator

Yeah, it sounds like what I would have suggested (report it to the county, report to VDOT, take it up with the Bike/Ped Program Manager, taking it up with streetlights folks, take it up with Parks, take it up with the BAC, and with the Board) has already been done.

My experience was that when light outages at the Glebe/FMR were reported to VDOT/County Streetlights folks that they were replaced.

Apparently this was not the case at I66. Steve has already put in a lot of hard work digging into this, so I’d like to hear a little more from him on the background. (Perhaps this evening?)

Did this outage just recently start happening or was it going on all winter? (I’m just hearing about this for the first time now–I must have missed the BAC meeting where Steve brought it up) Who at VDOT did Steve speak with and what exactly did they say?

April 7, 2014 at 8:33 pm #997971

chris_s
Participant

Am I blind or does this thread not mention anywhere what underpass it is we’re talking about?

April 7, 2014 at 8:34 pm #997972

Tim Kelley
Participant

@chris_s 81826 wrote:

Am I blind or does this thread not mention anywhere what underpass it is we’re talking about?

We’ve mentioned two. The one at Bon Air Park where the Custis goes under I66 and the one in the southern part of the County where FMR Trail goes under Glebe.

April 7, 2014 at 8:42 pm #997975

chris_s
Participant

@Tim Kelley 81827 wrote:

We’ve mentioned two. The one at Bon Air Park where the Custis goes under I66 and the one in the southern part of the County where FMR Trail goes under Glebe.

Thanks Tim.

April 7, 2014 at 9:15 pm #997977

mstone
Participant

Forget the lights or lack of lights, what I’ve never understood (given the large existing public right of way) is why that needs to be a death trap blind turn.

April 7, 2014 at 10:28 pm #997978

n18
Participant

I don’t visit that area at night, but I got curious and took pictures of that area two days ago(April 5th). Here are pictures of the whole thing, which is looking northwest, and the three lights that are there.

Light 1 seems of a different model than the other two. Lamp 2 & 3 are of the same model. Light 2 & 3 are enclosed inside a lamp guard, locked with padlocks(which are probably eroded). The cover of lamp 2 is open at the top, and was exposed to the elements. There are indications of water damage, especially to lamp 2 & 3. The wires over lamp 3 seem fine.

Unfortunately, the lamps are too high to reach without a ladder and I couldn’t see the make and model clearly. I don’t think that it’s just a matter of replacing the lights($20-$100 each). I think that these were supposed to be repaired by licensed electricians only.

Pictures:

April 7, 2014 at 10:38 pm #997979

n18
Participant

After searching the history of the Custis Trial to find who to contact, I found this page:

http://www.bikearlington.com/pages/about/contact-us/

See “Arlington Trails” under “Report a Problem on the Trails”, and also “Broken street lights or traffic signals” under “Report a Problem on the Streets”.

Please mention that you have bicycle lights and how inadequate they are because the trial goes 90 degrees under the bridge, so you are not seeing the trial clearly, nor pedestrians and other bikers who don’t use lights despite the rules about riding at night.

Hope this helps.
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