Latest on "b-b-but you don’t pay gas taxes!"

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 29 total)
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  • February 25, 2013 at 5:01 pm #963203
    vvill
    Participant

    It’s not exactly mutually exclusive either. We also own and drive two cars.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm #963205
    baiskeli
    Participant

    @vvill 44608 wrote:

    It’s not exactly mutually exclusive either. We also own and drive two cars.

    That’s true, but when you drive those, you use the roads and burn gas that you paid a gas tax on. My post shows that people who don’t even own a car (or a bike for that matter) still help pay for roads, alot.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm #963207
    vvill
    Participant

    Ah okay. I was just referring to the “you cyclists don’t pay your fair share” thing. A cyclist is just someone who rides a bike. A non-car owner is different.

    I’m sure roads etc are substantially funded indirectly in various ways by everyone anyway.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:19 pm #963210
    jabberwocky
    Participant

    @baiskeli 44610 wrote:

    My post shows that people who don’t even own a car (or a bike for that matter) still help pay for roads, alot.

    The corollary is that the majority of the cost of roads is that they need to be built to handle the weight of cars, which is very expensive in both initial construction and maintenance (especially when it comes to things like bridges). Roads built to handle only bikes would be much cheaper.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:20 pm #963212
    baiskeli
    Participant

    @vvill 44612 wrote:

    Ah okay. I was just referring to the “you cyclists don’t pay your fair share” thing. A cyclist is just someone who rides a bike. A non-car owner is different.

    Well, except when you’re riding your bike, you’re not driving your car, and not burning gas that you would pay a gas tax on. If roads and trails were 100% funded by gas taxes, you’d be a freeloader while riding your bike, technically.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:29 pm #963214
    vvill
    Participant

    @baiskeli 44617 wrote:

    Well, except when you’re riding your bike, you’re not driving your car, and not burning gas that you would pay a gas tax on. If roads and trails were 100% funded by gas taxes, you’d be a freeloader while riding your bike, technically.

    That’s assuming that you would use your car instead of riding, and you’re not just out on a bike ride. If I didn’t ride for transportation and drove instead I would cover a lot less miles in my car than I do on my bike. If roads were 100% funded by gas taxes, the price of gas might actually be closer to representing the true cost. A little bit.

    Anyway this all is beside the point of your original post.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:35 pm #963216
    baiskeli
    Participant

    @vvill 44619 wrote:

    That’s assuming that you would use your car instead of riding, and you’re not just out on a bike ride.

    That’s true, but when you’re on a bike ride, you’re still not paying a gas tax.

    Your gas tax payment depends on how much gas you burn. If you are riding a bike, you’re using a road without burning gas. Of course, a bike’s impact on roads and transportation spending is so tiny that it’s a silly point for them to make in the first place.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:38 pm #963218
    Terpfan
    Participant

    Everytime someone starts on the freeloading argument, I ask them if they ever ride Metro and they say yes. I point out that farebox recovery means they’re typically only paying 40-50% of the actual cost of the ride. So essentially they’re not paying gas taxes and that money is going to fund their ride–meaning, it’s far worse than their misguided notion of cyclists costing more. Obviously if you factor in our income tax portion to transportation and our sales tax we pay on equipment and parts then it probably exceeds the very minimal cost of bike infrastructure since most of it is on the street otherwise it’s small paved area.

    However, even if you never drive, you still pay gas tax indirectly. The goods and services you use don’t magically appear and those items freight has incorporated taxes/tolls/etc into the price. So you are an indirect beneficiary of the roads system and an indirect payor.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:39 pm #963219
    vvill
    Participant

    What Terpfan said ^ roads are a crucial part of infrastructure whether we like it or not. That doesn’t mean they can’t be made a smarter and smaller part of infrastructure of course.

    @baiskeli 44621 wrote:

    That’s true, but when you’re on a bike ride, you’re still not paying a gas tax.

    Your gas tax payment depends on how much gas you burn. If you are riding a bike, you’re using a road without burning gas. Of course, a bike’s impact on roads and transportation spending is so tiny that it’s a silly point for them to make in the first place.

    That assumes you are riding your bike on public roads! :D I guess I take some exception to the implied notion that a bike is an equivalent of a car that doesn’t use gas. It’s so much more. You can’t put your car on a trainer in your basement and watch TV. And there are even crazy people who take their bikes off road!

    February 25, 2013 at 5:43 pm #963222
    ShawnoftheDread
    Participant

    @vvill 44625 wrote:

    You can’t put your car on a trainer in your basement and watch TV.

    You don’t know what my house looks like. Maybe I have a dyno in the basement.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:44 pm #963223
    baiskeli
    Participant

    @vvill 44625 wrote:

    That assumes you are riding your bike on public roads! :D

    Well, yes. Mountain bikers on dirt don’t count. But motorists don’t moan about them.

    I guess I take some exception to the implied notion that a bike is an equivalent of a car that doesn’t use gas. It’s so much more. You can’t put your car on a trainer in your basement and watch TV. And there are even crazy people who take their bikes off road!

    This is only about when you’re on a public road and some a-hole in a car is complaining about it.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:45 pm #963224
    vvill
    Participant

    @ShawnoftheDread 44628 wrote:

    You don’t know what my house looks like. Maybe I have a dyno in the basement.

    I knew I should’ve re-worded that one :)

    You might crush your trainer, and jack up your undercarriage but you could certainly put a car on a bike trainer. While you watch TV on the couch.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:45 pm #963225
    baiskeli
    Participant

    @ShawnoftheDread 44628 wrote:

    You don’t know what my house looks like. Maybe I have a dyno in the basement.

    Or something even more destructive and space-consuming, such as a small child.

    February 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm #963226
    ShawnoftheDread
    Participant

    @vvill 44630 wrote:

    I knew I should’ve re-worded that one :)

    You might crush your trainer, and jack up your undercarriage but you could certainly put a car on a bike trainer. While you watch TV on the couch.

    I have one of these, with an 80″ screen in front of it. I call it the home drive-in.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]2456[/ATTACH]

    February 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm #963227
    dbb
    Participant

    The study proffered by the VA Governor in support of his new (Jan 2013) transportation funding proposal

    http://www.governor.virginia.gov/utility/docs/Chmura_gastax_20130128B.pdf

    suggests that 38% of the current state transportation funding currently comes from sales taxes. That likely doesnt include the amount Arlington County pays for road construction and maintenance out of the county budget (non gas tax based).

    Gov McDonnell’s proposal would have shifted even a greater portion of the transportation funding to the sales tax (by increasing the tax rate and taking a greater portion for transportation). Please note – I am not taking a position on the plan, just reporting

    Bottom line – regardless of your mode of transit, you are paying for roads

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