Night trail lights – please don’t run flashing be seen lights

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  • December 13, 2012 at 9:27 am #957525
    5555624
    Participant

    I’ve always thought that if my headlight is bright enough for me to see, it’s bright enough for me to be seen.

    As for “bright enough for me to see,” I mean I should be able to see well enough to ride just as fast as I could in bright sunlight on an unlit road/trail. If I have to creep along because I can’t see, my lights aren’t bright enough.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:43 am #957526
    Dirt
    Participant

    Welcome to the area! Sorry about the flashy lights on the trails. We haven’t all figured that out yet. Lots of us keep trying to spread the word.

    Rock and roll!

    Pete

    December 13, 2012 at 12:16 pm #957527
    mstone
    Participant

    @5555624 37991 wrote:

    I’ve always thought that if my headlight is bright enough for me to see, it’s bright enough for me to be seen.

    There’s a reason emergency vehicles use flashing lights; solid lights are much more easily lost in the background, while blinking lights draw attention. Stupid human brain. I assume that’s also the reason that people stare at oncoming strobes rather than looking aside.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm #957538
    GuyContinental
    Participant

    First, welcome! As a Seattle rain rider, you’ll be entertained by how much a little moisture thins out the trails…

    I swear the “outreach” (or feigned epileptic seizures/ screaming “I’mmmm blinnnnnd”) is starting to penetrate- at the start of night season I had 4-5 nasty strobe “Bobs” that I’d pass on the WOD every evening, last night only one, the others merely blinded me with sun-bright, poorly aimed high-output lights (I can sort of hide from those…).

    December 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm #957539
    rcannon100
    Participant

    The trail is always a mixed bag…. I was incredibly impressed by a number of people on the Custis last night who dimmed their bright headlights by putting their hands slightly over the lights. (I also continue to be impressed by the increased numbers of joggers who have lights of some kind…. not everyone…. but more)

    December 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm #957540
    Tim Kelley
    Participant

    @New to Arlington 37975 wrote:

    I’m from Seattle and new to Arlington/DC. Commuting to downtown using various trail combinations – Custis, W&OD, 4MR, and Mount Vernon. What a great cycling community and trail system – you Arlington folks sure do it right!

    Your flashing be seen lights are blinding me on your great off-road trails, though!

    Flash your be seen lights as you see fit on roads day or night and on trails during the day.

    For trails at night, though, would you please consider that it would be safer for your fellow trail users if you ran your be seen lights solid – both front and rear?

    If you really want to run flashers on trails at night, maybe aim them down?

    Thanks for considering!

    Welcome! Tell us more about your commuting route and what kind of bike you ride. We’ll all say Hi when we see you out and about!

    December 13, 2012 at 2:52 pm #957553
    Terpfan
    Participant

    I hear you on the strobe blinky lights. I keep figuring it’s people who that’s their only lights, which is actually a scarier thought to me. Anyway, welcome and enjoy the trails.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:38 pm #957567
    KLizotte
    Participant

    Welcome to the forum!

    If you are so inclined, we would be interested in hearing what it is like biking around Seattle and whether there is a similar forum there. Is there a large commuting community? Do you have bikeshare? Are the drivers better behaved? Is it more of MTB or roadie crowd? Just curious.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:48 pm #957570
    pfunkallstar
    Participant

    Welcome! Since this is DC and all, feel free to politely inform those offending parties that they are “doing it f#@*ing wrong.” Education must sometimes come with the iron fist of might.

    December 13, 2012 at 6:39 pm #957597
    Rootchopper
    Participant

    I have to say that I find this entire thread confusing. I have been riding the Mount Vernon Trail from DC/Rosslyn to the stone bridge south of Old Town for over a decade. I don’t find blinking lights problematic at all. I just don’t stare into them. What drives me over the edge are the few cyclists with death rays. These melt your retinas and leave you in tears. There is a bike light standard that the Germans use that prohibts the sale of death rays.

    BTW, one reason people use blinkies is that they extend battery life.

    Now, car headlights, especially those that are improperly aimed, are a much bigger worry. I have been stopped in my tracks several times this week as I ride home.

    I will change my ways, though. Steady as he goes.

    December 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm #957601
    ozmeister1984
    Participant

    I’ve never had a problem with the strobes until last night. There was someone with a ridiculously bright one that destroyed any extra night vision that I had. I usually look away, but I was coming around a corner on Four Mile Run and it blasted me. I had to creep along until the flashes went out of my eyes.

    I don’t mind the strobes on the trail, just not the insanely bright ones.

    December 13, 2012 at 7:46 pm #957604
    GuyContinental
    Participant

    @ozmeister1984 38074 wrote:

    I don’t mind the strobes on the trail, just not the insanely bright ones.

    Totally subjective but IMO < 35 ln = blinkie; 35-50 ln = bright; > 50 ln = strobe of doom. I think that there is also an electrical difference between a true strobe (pre LED it would have been a built up discharge) and a LED that just turns on and off (blinks)

    People may have different tolerances for them (maybe based on pupil size?) but short of physically covering my eyes with a hand (not very safe) I can’t hide from the damn things even with my eyes closed. On the plus side, when I’m not blinded, I have awesome night vision…

    December 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm #957620
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    This is even more relevant, given the particular colors of the holiday season, but it seems that science would favor bluish-green as the color of choice for headlights (since red is already in use for tail lights). Anyone seen any additional or bike-specific research on this?

    Astronomers seem to be the only ones particularly concerned with this:

    http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/

    –If you need the fastest dark adaptation recovery and can adjust to the limitations, or everyone in your group is using night vision equipment then blue-green.
    –If you must see detail (reading a star chart, or instrument settings) and can lose peripheral vision (see note 1), then a very long wavelength red at a very low level. Red really only has an advantage at very low levels (were the night blind spot is very obvious).
    –A general walking around light so that you don’t trip over the tripod, knock over equipment or bump into people, then blue-green with enough red added to get rid of the night blind spot, or maybe just use white. Blue-green at higher brightness also works very well and at a lower intensity than white.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:32 pm #957622
    Rootchopper
    Participant

    Now that you mention it, I followed a bike with a green rear reflector.

    I do know of one prominent night traveler who uses a red light but he’s only using it on the night of the 24th. His doesn’t blink.

    December 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm #957624
    mstone
    Participant

    That page is focused on trying to maintain night vision using dim lights. I hope nobody is trying to do that on metro area bike trails–there are too many light sources to have any hope of maintaining night vision good enough for cycling speeds.

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