Seriously, can we fix the Rosslyn Light Timing?

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  • August 31, 2012 at 3:23 pm #911994
    dasgeh
    Participant

    Bumping this to its own thread, in the hopes that are friends in the County can get this fixed. As a reminder, here’s the situation with the light timing at Lee and Lynn:

    @dasgeh 29255 wrote:

    From the past few days of riding, it seems the light cycle runs:
    1) leading pedestrian walk for peds heading East/West (from the MVT onto the Custis or the reverse) (all cars have red)
    2) green light for cars heading West (from ramp to Lee) & walk for peds heading East/West (cars heading North on Lynn towards Key Bridge have red)
    3) green light for cars heading West & countdown for peds heading East/West (cars heading North have red)
    4) green light for cars heading West & hand for peds heading East/West (cars heading North have red)
    5) yellow light for cars heading West & hand for peds heading East/West (cars heading North have red)

    6) leading pedestrian walk for peds heading North/South (along Lynn) (all cars have red)
    7) green light for cars heading North & walk for peds heading North/South (cars heading West have red)
    8) green light for cars heading North & countdown for peds heading North/South (cars heading West have red)
    9) green light for cars heading North & hand for peds heading North/South (cars heading West have red)
    10) yellow light for cars heading North & hand for peds heading North/South (cars heading West have red)

    While I could see why you would want the cycle to include a protected right turn for the cars on the ramp, including #4 in the cycle is not the way to do this. It’s not normally seen in traffic design, and it just makes it look like the light cycle is broken. So lots of people cross with the hand.

    On the other side of the light cycle, it makes no sense to have #9 — cars headed North can’t turn right onto that one way ramp, so there’s no reason to give peds the hand while the cars have green.

    Moreover, with the current timing, it seems impossible to cross through both the lights at Fort Myer and Lynn when heading East without stopping for the long cycle at both lights. That also breeds frustration that leads to red-hand-running.

    As others have noted, lots of cyclists are running the “hand” and the situation is dangerous. This morning there were easily 15 people (cyclists and pedestrians) lined up to cross East bound. There were too many of us to get through with the “walking person” – I was a few back and was in the intersection when the countdown ended, and there were certainly people who started after the countdown ended.

    What do we need to do to get this fixed?

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  • August 31, 2012 at 3:46 pm #950155
    Tim Kelley
    Participant

    Gave them another poke.

    Here’s the traffic signals page: http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/EnvironmentalServices/dot/traffic/signals/EnvironmentalServicesHb16.aspx

    If you (and anyone else) is feeling up to it–perhaps contacting them yourself as a resident rider might have some impact as well. (Various contacts listed on the page)

    August 31, 2012 at 4:54 pm #950164
    americancyclo
    Participant

    From the above linked page:

    The Traffic Signal Program
    is responsible for operation and maintenance of all electrical and electronic traffic control equipment, and providing signal design, construction and installation. This program is responsible for performing annual preventive maintenance on all on-site traffic control equipment and related hardware.
    Email: M. Licalzi

    can’t get that link to work properly, follow Tim’s link above, then scroll down.

    August 31, 2012 at 7:14 pm #950180
    mstone
    Participant

    Is the W&OD / Lee Highway signal by Falls Church also screwed up, or have I just been really unluckly lately?

    August 31, 2012 at 7:42 pm #950188
    americancyclo
    Participant

    I usually just go when I see cars moving, but I haven’t noticed an unusual timing with that crossing.

    August 31, 2012 at 7:49 pm #950189
    consularrider
    Participant

    @mstone 29959 wrote:

    Is the W&OD / Lee Highway signal by Falls Church also screwed up, or have I just been really unluckly lately?

    Probably no one is pushing the walk light button. It does seem like the left turn timing for southbound Lee Highway is slightly shorter. Also, I’ve started turning right onto Lee Highway and then left at Westmoreland by Chas’in Tail. So far I have had fairly good luck in either getting the left turn arrow or a break in the northbound traffic. Now if Arlington would only repave Westmoreland from Lee Highway to Sycamore.

    September 4, 2012 at 3:09 pm #950509
    Tim Kelley
    Participant

    @consularrider 29968 wrote:

    Probably no one is pushing the walk light button. It does seem like the left turn timing for southbound Lee Highway is slightly shorter. Also, I’ve started turning right onto Lee Highway and then left at Westmoreland by Chas’in Tail. So far I have had fairly good luck in either getting the left turn arrow or a break in the northbound traffic. Now if Arlington would only repave Westmoreland from Lee Highway to Sycamore.

    It’s been passed along.

    September 4, 2012 at 3:56 pm #950516
    jnva
    Participant

    I had a close call this morning at this intersection.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIrboQajxN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    September 4, 2012 at 6:45 pm #950501
    bobco85
    Participant

    @jnva 30179 wrote:

    I had a close call this morning at this intersection.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIrboQajxN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    While I’m glad there wasn’t an accident, I see that you entered the crosswalk with a flashing red hand showing 10 seconds left as that car was starting its turn. At that point, you shouldn’t begin crossing because you don’t have right-of-way (according to Virginia Code § 46.2-925). I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t see the law on your side had you collided with the car.

    The video shows a need for better balance at that intersection so that drivers get their chance to pass through the intersection and don’t have to resort to aggressive maneuvers. I think a bike signal is necessary here.

    September 4, 2012 at 7:13 pm #950483
    vvill
    Participant

    @dasgeh 29930 wrote:

    Bumping this to its own thread, in the hopes that are friends in the County can get this fixed. As a reminder, here’s the situation with the light timing at Lee and Lynn:

    …

    Agreed. And what’s even more strange about this is that the less busy light just couple hundred yards up at Custis & Oak St has a nice dedicated bike crossing light (although I do wish they didn’t use that pebble aggregate on the curb cuts – it’s quite slippery in the wet.)

    @consularrider 29968 wrote:

    Probably no one is pushing the walk light button. It does seem like the left turn timing for southbound Lee Highway is slightly shorter. Also, I’ve started turning right onto Lee Highway and then left at Westmoreland by Chas’in Tail. So far I have had fairly good luck in either getting the left turn arrow or a break in the northbound traffic. Now if Arlington would only repave Westmoreland from Lee Highway to Sycamore.

    I think this is quite a good alternative manoeuvre. I usually take it a step further when I’m going west bound and take Van Buren => E Columbia => Little Falls since I pop off the W&OD at Little Falls anyway. I often prefer crossing as road traffic at the E Columbia / 29 light rather than ped traffic at a busier intersection.

    September 4, 2012 at 7:21 pm #950485
    jnva
    Participant

    @bobco85 30203 wrote:

    While I’m glad there wasn’t an accident, I see that you entered the crosswalk with a flashing red hand showing 10 seconds left as that car was starting its turn. At that point, you shouldn’t begin crossing because you don’t have right-of-way (according to Virginia Code § 46.2-925). I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t see the law on your side had you collided with the car.

    The video shows a need for better balance at that intersection so that drivers get their chance to pass through the intersection and don’t have to resort to aggressive maneuvers. I think a bike signal is necessary here.

    Your right about the flashing hand, but I started crossing when the light turned green and I was in a line of people crossing. Agree there needs to be a bike signal.

    September 4, 2012 at 8:33 pm #950451
    Tim Kelley
    Participant

    @Tim Kelley 30167 wrote:

    It’s been passed along.

    Reports suggest the WOD/Lee Highway signal hasn’t been changed at all.

    September 4, 2012 at 8:55 pm #950436
    jnva
    Participant

    @Tim Kelley 30230 wrote:

    Reports suggest the WOD/Lee Highway signal hasn’t been changed at all.

    It used to be (a few months ago maybe) that you would get the walk signal automatically. Now you have to hit the button for the walk signal.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:28 pm #950440
    mstone
    Participant

    @bobco85 30203 wrote:

    While I’m glad there wasn’t an accident, I see that you entered the crosswalk with a flashing red hand showing 10 seconds left as that car was starting its turn. At that point, you shouldn’t begin crossing because you don’t have right-of-way (according to Virginia Code § 46.2-925). I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t see the law on your side had you collided with the car.

    The video shows a need for better balance at that intersection so that drivers get their chance to pass through the intersection and don’t have to resort to aggressive maneuvers. I think a bike signal is necessary here.

    Virginia desperately needs to update this section of the code to reflect the changes in crossing signal technology since 1974. There is no legitimate reason for someone to be required by law to stand on a corner when there is plenty of time to cross the street with a signal. Especially since the lights are now supposed to be timed for a walking speed of 3.5 feet per second, and the blinky hand time is coming out of the pedestrian share of the cycle, not the auto share.

    The car should not have even been in the intersection, as it passed too closely to the cyclist already in the crosswalk, regardless of the second cyclist.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:31 pm #950441
    mstone
    Participant

    @jnva 30234 wrote:

    It used to be (a few months ago maybe) that you would get the walk signal automatically. Now you have to hit the button for the walk signal.

    Few things infuriate me more than crosswalk signals where you have to push a button, but still don’t get a dedicated cycle. I’m pretty sure I hit the button, but I’ll keep better track. Or maybe I’ll just give up and start crossing without the stupid walk signal, because sooner or later as a pedestrian you just have to admit the infrastructure is working against you and just do what is safe.

    September 5, 2012 at 12:51 am #950454
    Dirt
    Participant

    It is weird and inconsistent. I haven’t been riding through Rosslyn much lately… Once last week, twice the week before.. None of those times were the lights timed correctly. Today I rolled through at about 2pm and they were perfect.

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