— WARNING — Cops writing tickets on the W&OD in Falls Church

This topic has 40 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 1 month ago by rcannon100.

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March 9, 2012 at 10:20 pm #937364

DSalovesh
Participant

Having solved all other problems…

@pmf 16066 wrote:

(does this count against your car points?)

Depends who you listen to. Police usually say yes because demerit points are associated with violations, and because bicycles are subject to the same laws then the same violation receives the same penalties.

Sensible people who are not police understand that having a driving license isn’t required for bicycle operation so no demerits should ever be assessed for bicycle violations.

Demerit points are mostly optional, by the way. Any guides stating point values for certain infractions (e.g., http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv115.pdf ) are based on typical and recommended and statutory information, but judges see this differently as well and are allowed to assess whatever demerit points they believe are appropriate.

Any idea why the officer didn’t hand over a ticket on site? I’m a bit skeptical that he wasn’t carrying a ticket book, so checking the ID may simply have been one of those barely-legal contact verification checks and there may be no ticket forthcoming.

March 9, 2012 at 11:30 pm #937367

MCL1981
Participant

I highly doubt you’ll be getting a ticket in the mail. Sounds like a verbal warning to me.

March 9, 2012 at 11:57 pm #937372

vvill
Participant

It is pretty ridiculous from a common sense point of view. Surely there are more important things to be policing, and there should be some leeway when it comes to a full stop with cars there and a rolling stop when there’s clearly no traffic coming. This is coming from someone who is often overtaken by CaBi riders around Georgetown/Foggy Bottom because I stop for red lights.

When I take the Custis to W&OD home I’m off at Little Falls Rd. Some days I’m tempted to go on for a bit of extra riding but I don’t think I’ll be doing that anytime soon. Though I only carry my work IDs and SmarTrip with me when I commute in (I leave my drivers license and most of my other cards and wallet at home). I wonder what they would do then for ID.

March 10, 2012 at 1:01 am #937375

KLizotte
Participant

They are enforcing this on the WO&D whereas tonight I saw an Arlington Country cop drive past and ignore *three* vehicles parked in the bike lane on South Joyce Street in front of Pentagon Row tonight. One was a Marriott hotel van, another was a large semi unloading boxes/crates (no lettering on the side so no idea who the offending company is), and the last vehicle was a private car. All this in less than half a mile.

Grrrrr…….

I am going to send off an email to the two Marriotts in Crystal City to request that their van drivers respect the bike lanes. The Americana hotel has also been an offender.

March 10, 2012 at 1:13 am #937378

jrenaut
Participant

@vvill 16079 wrote:

Though I only carry my work IDs and SmarTrip with me when I commute in (I leave my drivers license and most of my other cards and wallet at home). I wonder what they would do then for ID.

If you aren’t operating a motor vehicle, you don’t have to present ID, do you? My understanding is you need to tell police name and address, but don’t actually have to show ID.

March 10, 2012 at 2:17 am #937384

Dirt
Participant

It would be lovely if they enforced the law on cars too. Bummer that they don’t.

March 10, 2012 at 3:46 am #937391

JeffB
Participant

@jrenaut 16085 wrote:

If you aren’t operating a motor vehicle, you don’t have to present ID, do you? My understanding is you need to tell police name and address, but don’t actually have to show ID.

In most states that is true. However it is a very good idea to have such id with you.

March 10, 2012 at 3:48 am #937392

rcannon100
Participant

I am going to send off an email to the two Marriotts in Crystal City

Answer: YELP reviews.

Carrying ID. Nope, dont have to carry. But if you dont present, and the cops want to make an issue of it, they can detain you for a good while.

And finally, yes, its rubbish. I have said this dozens of times. Sorry to bore. We do not impose train laws on trucks. We do not impose plane laws on trains. We do not impose truck laws on cars. Yet magically we impose car laws on bikes.

So what is a stop. For a one ton hunk of steel, that can go from zero to 60 in a few seconds, stop means the wheels stop moving for 3 seconds or whatever. Now this rarely happens, but one of the reasons for this is so that other cars can predict what they are going to do, and who has the right of way. Cause after a car pushes that gas pedal, its through the intersection and any damage can be severe.

What’s a stop for a bike? Is it one ton? Nope. 50 lbs plus the rider. Can it go from zero to 60 in a few seconds. Nope. I can go from zero to 10 in about an hour. Is there difficulty predicting what a bike will do – well not the same way with a car, cause there is no windshield or structure blocking eye contact. So what is there?? There is stopping sufficiently to clearly yield and see clearly both ways down the road – does this require a full stop and wheels not moving for three seconds. Nope. The idea that going really slow, and giving a hard look right and left – does not equal “stop” for a bike – its just silly.

We are the bastard stepchildren on any infrastructure. We are the only “vehicles” required to comply for traffic laws built for an entirely different class of moving vehicle.

March 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm #937406

MCL1981
Participant

If you don’t have valid drivers license or state ID with you, all they need is you name and DOB to look it up. You can look up using either method (DL# or Name/DOB).

March 11, 2012 at 1:11 am #937410

Bruce Wright
Participant

If a cyclist does get a ticket for running one of the W&OD stop signs I would recommend contesting it. Several years ago a cyclist was issued a ticket at the W&OD/Belmont Ridge intersection. He was in the crosswalk and was struck by a motorist. The ticket cited VA code 46.2-821 Vehicles before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right-of-way.. The cyclist hired a lawyer and fought the ticket. The judge decided that since the W&OD Trail is not a “highway,” the cited code was not applicable. See my notes about this case at the end of a bike commuting article I wrote for the RBC newsletter back in 2004.

March 11, 2012 at 5:43 am #937412

StopMeansStop
Participant

You do NOT have to produce identification. You are required to provide your name and address if they ask. They may NOT detain you to verify your information. They may detain you to issue you a summons, but that’s it.

March 11, 2012 at 3:09 pm #937418

americancyclo
Participant

Falls Church City is on a real roll with the verbal warnings. Particulary on the nice evening commutes. They never appear in the mornings. See my detailed description of the stop here, where we all declined to provide ID, but were asked name and DOB. I still think it’s BS

March 11, 2012 at 6:24 pm #937425

HaymarketDan
Participant

I go stopped Thur afternoon in FC. As I was approaching I had slowed down to about 5 mph by the time the vehicle stopped at the crosswalk n placed his arm out n waved everyone pass. By that time I was standing on my pedals n proceeded to pedal thru. On the other side were three peds n a b iker who was the cop. I did what I was told n while waiting for his dispatcher he began to ask mequestions like why I thought it was okay to not stop. As I tried to explain he cuts me off. Again he continues n asks me again. I reply n again he cuts me off. I’m siting there annoyed a waiting n the punk agains starts up. When I replied yet a 3rd time he cuts me off n I said “hey look, u asked me the question 3x n keep cutting me off. I’m not arguing with u r arguing with me. Then I said r u going to ticket me or not n he said since my DL expired last month, he wasn’t. He said to make sure to tell my biker friends. Nxt time he’ll have to catch me.

March 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm #937458

baiskeli
Participant

@Bruce Wright 16115 wrote:

If a cyclist does get a ticket for running one of the W&OD stop signs I would recommend contesting it. Several years ago a cyclist was issued a ticket at the W&OD/Belmont Ridge intersection. He was in the crosswalk and was struck by a motorist. The ticket cited VA code 46.2-821 Vehicles before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right-of-way.. The cyclist hired a lawyer and fought the ticket. The judge decided that since the W&OD Trail is not a “highway,” the cited code was not applicable. See my notes about this case at the end of a bike commuting article I wrote for the RBC newsletter back in 2004.

I don’t get it.

This implies that cyclists never have to stop, even for stop signs. If they are legally pedestrians at crosswalks, I still don’t think pedestrians can just jump into traffic if it’s not safe. This case would imply that nobody was at fault – that there’s no law at an intersection except that cars must yield, even if a bike or ped jumps right out in front of them.

March 12, 2012 at 1:15 pm #937463

MCL1981
Participant

You’re looking for logic. Two things are at work here…

1) There may not be a law specific to the trail signs for bikes and peds.
2) Interpretation of the law can change the law. Tomorrow, a judge could say the total opposite of that (and I would agree).
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